Number of A Levels

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Middlesexmum
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Re: Number of A Levels

Post by Middlesexmum »

G55 - she is. Over the next few weeks she'll be attending open days for Sixth Forms at other schools so she can compare what they offer.
Reading Mum
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Re: Number of A Levels

Post by Reading Mum »

DD asked the ‘3 or 4’ question of each vet school - the answer was always the same. Offer based on 3. No allowance made if you choose to do 4 and it brings the overall tally down.
kenyancowgirl
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Re: Number of A Levels

Post by kenyancowgirl »

MSD wrote:
scary mum wrote:Birmingham's website states:
Typical offer
A*AA. Candidates should have predicted AAA including Biology and Chemistry
It also states

Candidates studying four A Levels:
If all A Level subjects are examined for first time in Year 13, the offer will be AAAB (Biology and Chemistry must be at grade A)
Yeah - perhaps visit Birmingham? We did - and it is one of the choices on the submitted form. They were not overly interested in 4 A levels - when we actually spoke to staff, they stated that their offer is on 3 and that a candidate with 4 has no advantage (and many disadvantages) over one with 3. They don't take any slippage (except for contextual) and a typical offer is an "average" offer. They offer a lower contextual offer to certain schools though - 3 As - they are one of the courses that requires A* across the board in GCSEs, including Maths and 2 English as well, otherwise the candidate will not get through the first stage algorithym. (Sorry it's early and as the UCAS form has now gone in, all our research in that sense has been done and discarded from my brain!) Another course that does not look at references or PS's unless it is to 2 candidates on a tie break. Trust me, I was fascinated by what they said at Open Day sessions - the words behind the headlines on the website, if you will. Interesting that more and more Universities stop parents going into the talks as well, as they have identified that a lot of the push is parental, rather than student led - you can see that on the day, as some students turn up with entire families in tow!
MSD
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Re: Number of A Levels

Post by MSD »

Lucky to know about this school and admission criteria as couple of friends' children joined this year and they most certainly were giving lower offers on 4 A levels taken in Year 13 as compared to 3. The adjustments for four A Levels did not apply to those taking Mathematics and Further Mathematics though.
KCG wrote:they are one of the courses that requires A* across the board in GCSEs, including Maths and 2 English as well, otherwise the candidate will not get through the first stage algorithym
Not necessarily true. Yes, they are GCSE heavy for pre-interview selections and eventual offers, but a candidate requiring all A*'s is a myth many parents carry. And they also include a contextual element based on school attended, while preparing a scaled score, and do try to level the playing field for disadvantaged state schools.

Here's the criteria. In recent years, a scaled score of 8.2+ will most likely get an interview and children who qualify under contextual schools, it was a little lower.

"The subjects that will be scored are: English (both English Language and English Literature), Mathematics (or one, but not both, of Methods in Mathematics and Applications of Mathematics), Biology and Chemistry (or dual award science), plus two additional GCSEs (any subject). All of the named subjects except English Literature are required and must be offered at a minimum grade of B/6.

For the subjects specified above, the scores allocated to the different grades will be in the ratio of 4:2:1 (for A*, A, B/9 or 8,7,6, respectively). For each of the two unspecified subjects, a score of 2 will be allocated when an A*/9 or 8 grade has been obtained (lower grades will not receive a score).

The total GCSE score will be scaled to a maximum of 6.0. Therefore, when this is combined with a score for the UKCAT result, the combined maximum score is 10.0. Note that GCSE grades are weighted much more (60%) in this scoring mechanism."
kenyancowgirl
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Re: Number of A Levels

Post by kenyancowgirl »

Yes, I know that is what is said on the website.

They score the GCSEs, they score the UKCAT - if you haven't got top grades in the GCSEs you need a much higher UKCAT score - much higher - almost impossibly high (and I am speaking as someone who has a son who got one of the highest UKCAT scores possible this year). They then rank the students and only invite the top x to interview. If you are up against students with all A* you might not make the cut - and, the Admissions tutor said to a lecture theatre stuffed to the gills that apart from contextual offers, (which he stressed was more at A level stage - the contextual GCSE bit is where there are borderline interview offers to be made) generally their students are the all A* brigade.

Birmingham know they are popular. They don't need to accept lower. They do also know that they have to be seen to be widening participation and all their literature reflects this (in the same way other universities' do). The contextual A level offer is 3 As. There are other Medical Schools who are a bit more flexible, (as in if their offer is A* A* A and you get A* AA, they might make you an offer on results day) but, again everything is ranked and rated (one I know of rates PS's and references as part of their algorithm) and certainly English Language is becoming more prevalent as a GCSE requirement (due to communication issues in the NHS). Having minimum requirements listed on websites for courses such as medicine, dentistry, veterinary is common - actually getting in with the minimum is much less so.

There will of course be exceptions to the rule, so I am not saying students won't get through, but one or two exceptions do not make data.

The OP asked whehter it was important to do 4 A levels. The answer is absolutely not. And I am yet to come across a university that says well, without 4 you haven't got a chance - but every university I have come across has said do 3 well not 4 not so well. However, my son is applying in a different year to your son - things may change - your son needs to do his own research. But, literally nothing I have heard tells me that doing 4 A levels is helpful to a student with regard to uni offers. Even a perceived lower offer (which is only ever a maximum of one grade) does not account for the amount of work that might affect the 3 strongest A levels, which is what Universities are saying over and over again in talks and at Open Days to people who visit.
Surferfish
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Re: Number of A Levels

Post by Surferfish »

Daogroupie wrote:There is plenty of breadth in three A levels. Each A level will have breadth within the specification, especially if there is coursework.

History has three different papers and coursework. Latin has four different papers, language and literature and Music has composition, performance and an exam paper. Why would you need any more breadth than that?

I agree with the argument that taking more than 3 A levels would be too much of a workload for many students and therefore may negatively affect their grades required for University.

However, I don’t agree at all that there is plenty of breadth in three A levels, or that there is no advantage of having more than 3 other than parents bragging rights. I’ve always thought that asking young people to choose to specialize in just 3 subjects at aged 15/16 is incredibly narrow and limiting. Most other countries do not do this and offer a broader education to age 18.

Latin A level may have 4 different papers but they’re all on Latin! If someone took History, Latin and Music in the example you gave they are essentially preventing themselves from ever following a science based degree or career. 3 A levels forces people down the sciences or arts and humanities route at a time when they may not be ready to decide.

Even within the sciences themselves 3 is rather limiting. Lets say a young person really likes science but is unsure at age 15 what exactly they want to do with the rest of their life. A perfectly reasonable attitude to have IMO. If they take maths, physics, chemistry they will be limiting their chances of following a biological or medical type career by not doing biology. Alternatively if they take maths, chemistry and biology they are ruling out most engineering degrees which require physics. Or if they don’t take maths or chemistry again that would limit many future options.

If someone is really capable of taking 4 A levels and getting good grades in them wouldn’t this give them a wider range of options for future study and work and therefore be an advantage?
Middlesexmum
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Re: Number of A Levels

Post by Middlesexmum »

Surferfish wrote:

If someone is really capable of taking 4 A levels and getting good grades in them wouldn’t this give them a wider range of options for future study and work and therefore be an advantage?
Yes it would and you make some good points. But what I object to is the expectation to do 4 and being made to feel inadequate for doing 3.
Guest55
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Re: Number of A Levels

Post by Guest55 »

Surferfish wrote:If someone is really capable of taking 4 A levels and getting good grades in them wouldn’t this give them a wider range of options for future study and work and therefore be an advantage?
How many people did 4 A levels before 2000? Hardly anyone did either when I was a student myself or in any of the schools I taught in ... we are back to linear A levels and the situation is different.

Do IB if you want to study more subjects ...
Middlesexmum
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Re: Number of A Levels

Post by Middlesexmum »

Guest55 wrote: Do IB if you want to study more subjects ...
Yes that's what I thought....but from a financial viewpoint, it's hard for state schools to offer the IB.
MSD
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Re: Number of A Levels

Post by MSD »

kenyancowgirl wrote:Yes, I know that is what is said on the website.

They score the GCSEs, they score the UKCAT - if you haven't got top grades in the GCSEs you need a much higher UKCAT score - much higher - almost impossibly high (and I am speaking as someone who has a son who got one of the highest UKCAT scores possible this year). They then rank the students and only invite the top x to interview. If you are up against students with all A* you might not make the cut - and, the Admissions tutor said to a lecture theatre stuffed to the gills that apart from contextual offers, (which he stressed was more at A level stage - the contextual GCSE bit is where there are borderline interview offers to be made) generally their students are the all A* brigade.

Birmingham know they are popular. They don't need to accept lower. They do also know that they have to be seen to be widening participation and all their literature reflects this (in the same way other universities' do). The contextual A level offer is 3 As. There are other Medical Schools who are a bit more flexible, (as in if their offer is A* A* A and you get A* AA, they might make you an offer on results day) but, again everything is ranked and rated (one I know of rates PS's and references as part of their algorithm) and certainly English Language is becoming more prevalent as a GCSE requirement (due to communication issues in the NHS). Having minimum requirements listed on websites for courses such as medicine, dentistry, veterinary is common - actually getting in with the minimum is much less so.

There will of course be exceptions to the rule, so I am not saying students won't get through, but one or two exceptions do not make data.

The OP asked whehter it was important to do 4 A levels. The answer is absolutely not. And I am yet to come across a university that says well, without 4 you haven't got a chance - but every university I have come across has said do 3 well not 4 not so well. However, my son is applying in a different year to your son - things may change - your son needs to do his own research. But, literally nothing I have heard tells me that doing 4 A levels is helpful to a student with regard to uni offers. Even a perceived lower offer (which is only ever a maximum of one grade) does not account for the amount of work that might affect the 3 strongest A levels, which is what Universities are saying over and over again in talks and at Open Days to people who visit.

Yes, I agree there is no apparent advantage to be gained by doing 4 A levels as far as majority of universities and courses are concerned. The factual stats I provided were in response to OP's question that whether their school is right in stating some university courses offer lower grades for 4 A levels. And, the clear answer to that is majority don't, but some still do.

Last year the non-contextual candidates who made the guaranteed interview for Birmingham had a scaled score of around 8.2 out of 10. So, they still had the flexibility to lose 2 scaled points on GCSE's without compromising on an interview place. Yes, most candidates making the interview will have a full house of A* grades, but NOT all candidates, by any means. As you rightly point out a candidate can perform well on UKCAT to make up for lack of GCSE A* grades. And we must also bear in mind Birmingham medicine invite a fair few for interviews - in the region of 1150 and give out conditional offer to almost 2/3 (around 750 out of 334 places available).

Many congratulations to your son for achieving one of the highest UKCAT scores! You must be a proud parent and please do share some tips for future medics.
kenyancowgirl wrote:Interesting that more and more Universities stop parents going into the talks as well, as they have identified that a lot of the push is parental, rather than student led - you can see that on the day, as some students turn up with entire families in tow!
You did well to get in KCG, against all the odds!
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