University 2 Grade Head Start offers for poor Pupils

Ed's mum · Post by **Ed's mum** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:35 am

http://www.rugbyschool.net/newsitem.php?news_id=495

Thought I would share this with you for your thoughts.

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:51 am

Hi Ed's mum,

I remember reading that letter which I found generally impressive.
I believe that aspiration is absolutely key to social mobility.I hear my children say "When I go to University......." there is no question of "if" for them, they just assume it.( which annoys my extended family somewhat

)
To break the cycle of low educational outcomes and low aspirations though, someone in the family has to be the first to seek an education.If the family are truly disadvantaged, aspiration in itself will not necessarily be enough.
There is a local scheme called "first in the family"( ie to Uni).I think these schemes can really help raise aspiration and lets hope that there is the support to follow in terms of a good education.

Are you having a day off from home improvements?

Tolstoy · Post by **Tolstoy** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:01 pm

Exactly Ed's mum.

I am a cynic and believe politics should stay out of education. Many polititians want quick fixes and news headlines. They personally don't benifit from good grass root policies that require a substantial amount of funding.

I can see what you are saying CM but I just don't think happen that way.

Whoops CM crossed posts again there I take so long to type and finally submit. I was responding to your last one.

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:10 pm

Tolstoy wrote:Exactly Ed's mum.

I am a cynic and believe politics should stay out of education. Many polititians want quick fixes and news headlines. They personally don't benifit from good grass root policies that require a substantial amount of funding.

I can see what you are saying CM but I just don't think happen that way.

I know I am a bit of an idealist

Surely though Tolstoy, there would be no hope for greater social equality without some policy making in this area.For example I went to uni when fees were still paid, student loans had just begun.My education was largely funded by the state and if it has not been so, I would not have been able to stay in education.My parents would have made me go to full time work.
Policies like the Â£30 EMA money for disadvantaged sixth formers are great. If I had been first in birth order in my family, I would not have been able to stay on in sixth form because of my parent's need for a financial contribution.As it was I had to work as well to help out a bit. The EMA would have helped convince my parents had I been the eldest.

Aspiration is key but not enough by itself.

WP · Post by WP » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:46 pm

Something else to throw into the pot: Schooling effects on subsequent university performance: evidence for the UK university population, Robin Naylor and Jeremy Smith, Warwick University:

From a unique data-set identifying the school attended prior to university for a full cohort of UK university students, we examine the determinants of final degree classification. We exploit the detailed school-level information and focus on the influence of school characteristics, such as school type, on subsequent performance of students at university. We estimate that, on average, a male (female) graduate who attended an Independent school is 6.5 (5.4) percentage points less likely to obtain a `good' degree than is a student who attended an LEA (that is, state-sector) school, ceteris paribus. We also find considerable variation around this average figure across different Independent schools. We find that, for males, the variation in the probability of attaining a `good' degree across schools can largely be explained by the level of school fees.

Implying that it may be in universities' own interests to make some adjustments to straight A-level points.

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:48 pm

WP,
Thanks that's really interesting and a tad surprising .
Maybe you should post it on the indep section of the forum too.

Ed's mum · Post by **Ed's mum** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:59 pm

It just goes to show doesn't it, that buying an education does not make any guarantees to the quality. It certainly could stimulate some debate on the independent section of the forum CM! Let's hope it stays polite...

mike1880 · Post by **mike1880** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:19 pm

I'm sure I posted numbers some while back for the percentage of students from grammar, indie, comp and 6th form college achieving firsts at some Russell group uni or other (or maybe overall). It was in that order, ranging from about 7% of ex-grammar pupils to well over 20% of ex-6th form college students. Which might sound all very well but another way of looking at it is to suggest that it implies that the latter are substantially under-achieving at school, so that a comp or 6th form college student has to be much, much brighter than a grammar or indie pupil to get to a good uni.

Which still doesn't tackle the point that at our local comp nobody is being given any sort of academic education anyway and will not be going to university no matter how clever they are. ALthough they might make a pretty good, if frustrated, hairdresser (they are more likely to make a pretty good drug dealer, unfortunately).

I have to disagree with CM to some extent; not that aspiration is not enough in itself (I agree there) but that these kids don't even know what aspiration is - nothing in their background or environment has given them any cause to have any - and even if they did know what they could aspire to, it would take a good deal of persuasion to believe that they ought to have it in the teeth of the hostility they would endure from their peers and families. It needs some very radical thinking to come up with a way of breaking this cycle.

Mike

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:36 pm

mike1880 - you paint a very negative picture of a comprehensive school. There are many good comps - I worked in one, We had pupils go to Oxbridge each year but that did not stop some pupils having an ambition to be hairdressers (and one used to do my hair!). Teachers try to inspire all pupils but it is parents that have the biggest influence.

Project such as 'aim higher' do try to make children aware of opportunities - one can hope that the present economic climate wil encourage more people to go to college. EMA has helped and maybe the change in school leaving age will also help -

mike1880 · Post by **mike1880** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:40 pm

My views on the opportunities available at our local comp are based on its own prospectus (quoted on the first page). Nothing teachers and local parents have to say has contradicted that impression.

[edit - I went to a comprehensive school myself and have few complaints about the quality of education available. Our local comp isn't like the one I attended and doesn't appear to have many aspirations for its pupils.]

Mike