Universities selecting on basis of GCSEs...

[Marylou]

KenR, sorry just re-read my post and it didn't say what I meant it too, and there were a couple of posts in-between. That'll teach me for rushing.

It was really meant as reply to Wurzel's question of

Are we really talking only about law and medicine where competition is so fierce that every GCSE must be A or above? I ask because my son in year 9 is taking a compulsory half-GCSE this year, in a non-standard subject, and I am not totally confident he will get an A!

So yes they are essential for top Unis and very popular courses but not all Unis and not all courses.

This is what I think is so unfair... A candidate can work hard and get excellent A-levels but, for whatever reason, may not have done so well at GCSE...so if they want to go for a competitive course they may as well forget it as they have already written themselves off. In a school I know of in a relatively well-off semi-rural area, a few years ago, the best set of GCSE results for the year group was one A* and 10 As. This school had been in special measures and - I strongly suspect - had been focussing its efforts on middle-ability students (see todays Guardian -http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/201 ... gue-tables)
The young man who got those results went on to achieve excellent A-levels and is now studying for a Medical Science BSc having failed (inevitably, it seems) to secure a place on a Medicine course. He won an award at the end of his first year for achieving the highest marks on the course, and still plans to become a doctor, but will need to study Medicine as a postgraduate (assuming, of course, that a good honours degree in Medical Science will be enough to cancel out that "shocking" set of GCSE results. )

What's needed is proper A-level grading, with an A reserved for the very best, a B being well above average, a C being respectable, and D and E being acceptable passes - then there would be no need to hark back to exams done two years earlier. It remains to be seen whether the new A* will do the trick. I suspect not, somehow.

[Amber]

What's needed is proper A-level grading, with an A reserved for the very best, a B being well above average, a C being respectable, and D and E being acceptable passes - then there would be no need to hark back to exams done two years earlier. It remains to be seen whether the new A* will do the trick. I suspect not, somehow.

Yes, yes yes! I really do not understand why we need an extra grade - why not just mark the exams more rigorously and, as you say, save an A for the very best, like it used to be. My offer for university was initially BBC, which was changed to EE after interview. This was at a redbrick university in a department which was highly regarded. Nowadays this sounds such a doddle that people would laugh at it. One girl at my school got straight As in her A levels - and it made the local paper because it was so unusual! And a close friend of mine, a doctor, got into a very prestigious medical school with 3 Bs. Were we less clever? Less hardworking? According to the press, yes we were. Not sure about that - 3 Bs sounded pretty good in my day.

At the rate we are going, by the time this year's Reception classes are taking A levels there will be A****s - and no-one will get lower than a B.

[Marylou]

My offer for university was initially BBC, which was changed to EE after interview.

You must be younger than me, Amber - the going rate in my day was CCC! I obviously didn't make much of an impression at interview though, as the offer stayed the same.

I ended up getting in with BBD but the professor for the subject I got a D in made me feel like a second-class citizen. Ironically that was the subject in which I ended up making my career and which now pays the bills...evidence, perhaps, that a less than perfect exam result shouldn't have to spell the end.

[hermanmunster]

standard offer at UCL for medicine in late 70's was CCC (of course tricky bit was getting the offer!) .


Most got much higher A levels . They were a very bright bunch.

[wurzel]

I think on the whole I find it quite reassuring that the qualifications required to become a doctor are very high. However, this has now set me wondering why such a desperate struggle exists among large numbers of highly successful A-level students wanting to do medicine, when other creative, important, intellectually demanding courses such as physics and engineering do not create the same feeding frenzy. Yes, the money for doctors is very good, and there are clear emotional rewards in that it benefits large numbers of people, but the hours are long, the training extremely demanding and expensive and the responsibility huge, when a mistake could literally cost a life.

What, then, is the huge appeal of medicine as compared to other courses of study, or is it just that there are fewer places available? It seems mad that so many immensely talented young people are being disappointed in their career choice, when other highly-useful, rewarding subjects could benefit from more top-quality applicants.

[hermanmunster]

What, then, is the huge appeal of medicine as compared to other courses of study, or is it just that there are fewer places available? It seems mad that so many immensely talented young people are being disappointed in their career choice, when other highly-useful, rewarding subjects could benefit from more top-quality applicants.

Um ... would love to know why the appeal is so great.

Medicine bridges art and science - hopeless to be a true scientist - you need to be a "fuzzy scientist" with some logical humanities background I think.

As each generation of doctors have kids, their offspring who by this time have both genetically and academically mutated (far worse if both parents doctors ) - have been bombarded by endless discussions at supper of familial hypokalaemic periodic paralysis and been reading the BMJ in the bath etc etc and hence they find it difficult to fill in much else on the UCAS form ..... UNLESS they are encouraged to do so!

However it is not just doctorettes who are applying - there are loads of others who can't possibly appreciate how barking mad it is to want to go to medical school....
TBH - the NHS is getting far less attractive for doctors any way so maybe the message will get through

[sherry_d]

I too never understand the frenzy of Medicine, in the US perhaps where they earn huge dollars. Having family in medicine can turn you off completely too. Some cultures are obssesively into medicine and all things related so that perhaps helps feeding the frenzy.

[marigold]

I have a Greek friend who is a doctor. She tells me that in Greece it is virtually compulsory to have a doctor in the family, much as in 1950's Ireland the sign of success was to have a nun or a priest in the family. There are not enough training places in Greece so many go to Bulgaria or Russia. I wonder how many of our super bright potential medics would be prepared to travel abroad and train in a foreign language.

Despite having two GP Grandfathers, a nurse Mother and Grandmother and a surgeon( Cambridge 2 E Es ) Father none of my three have shown the slightest inkling in that direction...all seems like far too much hard work I suppose.

[solimum]

The schools also have something to do with it - bright kids doing science A levels can often be steered towards medicine by fairly unimaginative careers advice, especially when it is considered more prestigious (for the school...) to gain med school entry than other degree choices. That of course leads to the "shock horror" tales of students with excellent A level prospects who don't get any offers when perhaps if they had looked at a wider range of options they wouldn't have had expectations raised and then dashed. Obviously there are many who can genuinely write on their personal statements that "I have always wanted to be a doctor ever since my brother was rushed into hospital when I was five..." but it has sometimes struck me how many prospective medics only seem to mention it quite late in the day. Perhaps it's one of the easier careers to visualise (thanks to "Casualty" etc!) whereas other satisfying scientific/ engineering careers don't get the publicity they deserve.

Now don't get me started on lawyers!

[bromley mum]

Now don't get me started on lawyers!

My DC is thinking of medicine or law so please start away!!!