Uni offer on 4 A levels (2018 entry)

[tense]

Hello all,

I noticed that a university was making a lower offer for students sitting 4 A levels in one year. My DC's school arranges double maths so you sit the complete maths A level in Y12 and the complete further maths one in Y13. Obviously you still take six modules each time, so this doesn't seem to me to be a lighter workload.

I checked this with the uni who confirmed this arrangement wouldn't count. They did say you could choose your best 3 A levels over the two years. But this seems perverse. In effect, you could be better off dropping one of the three A levels you'd be sitting in Y13 and focusing all your efforts on just two. Or if you re-took one / more of the A level maths modules, would this make the entire A level awarded in Y13, not Y12?

I did raise this at school at a university information evening last term. Their view was that (in this scenario) the 4 A levels counted regardless of the year taken (now confirmed by the uni in question not to be the case). They couldn't advise on the 'year awarded' query - we weren't speaking to a maths teacher.

I really don't like the idea of exam game playing rather than viewing education as simply just worthwhile. But being realistic, my DS isn't enjoying one of his remaining 3 A levels and doesn't put much effort into it. Would it be better just to drop it? Are other universities likely to think that maths /FM aren't acceptable as 2 of 3 A levels?

Any views / advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

[kenyancowgirl]

The general advice is this - Unis want to see a minimum of 3 A levels taken in one sitting - they usually have exceptions to those they will include (such as Critical thinking and General Studies not being included, so if your 3 included one of those, they would consider that as only 2). With Maths and Further Maths, whilst many like it, some just see it as effectively 1 across the 2 years as one is sort of an extension of the other. There has been examples of people getting an offer on the 3 A levels they present and others getting an offer on the 4 they present. Whilst they 4s might have got an offer one grade lower, one does have to question if that one grade lower actually negates the possible downturn in the other 3 grades with the increased workload? Uni published offers all tend to be 3 A levels (occasionally with an AS or EPQ recommended, however, as AS's become less popular in schools as they are now standalone, and many schools not offering them or the EPQ, unis do accept that these may not taken/offered.)

Certainly our school is advising with the new linear A levels, not to take 4 A levels this year (excluding additional maths) unless the student really really wants to and got at least 8 A*...my son is in this category, but has decided not to do the MFL he was going to do alongside his Sciences/Maths. He will use the "extra" time to do other things that interest him like public speaking and volunteering - as far as I am concerned, if Universities decide they do not want him with this extra curricular package he intends to build for himself, then they are not worthy of him - these will be far better for him personally, exploring that side, than an additonal A level.

In terms of whether he would be better off dropping it at this stage, I think you would have to discuss with the staff and exams officer - I suspect the answer would be no - he may well already have been entered for the exam, and when completing his UCAS form, if entered already, he would have to list it and, if not entered already, his UCAS form would possibly raise questions only doing 2.

[Amber]

My son's head teacher has been very clear in his advice that there is no point in doing 4 A levels. DS will start 4 and drop one when he has decided which one he likes least. I think if you do 4 you are going to get offers on 4. DS also achieved very highly at GCSE but there has been no suggestion this should make him inclined to do more A levels - Head said he should be aiming for 3 A* and that is that.

[Catseye]

For highly numerate degrees like Physics, Engineering, Computer Science and Maths (obviously); maths and FM are considered as separate A levels as part of your 3 A levels but for medicine for example they are not.

tbh no one should consider maths and FM if not required at degree level and conversely both should be taken (if available) if one is doing a maths heavy course.

My son did 4 A levels and was offered on 3 for computer science i.e any three of; maths, FM,Physics or Computer Science, if he would have done say geography instead of computer science then I think they would've still made offers on 3 but excluding geography.

So, what I am saying is it depends on what course he wants to pursue at university if it not a numerate subject then don't bother with FM concentrate on the other 3 A levels.

[Tinkers]

My DD has been looking at uni course requirements, as she will be looking at A level options soon.
I'd agree with Catseye. DD has seen that for the courses she is interested in, they will only count maths or F maths, but not both, so there's no point her doing F maths (not that she wanted to).

[KB]

With the changes underway it's impossible to extrapolate from past history so I think you need to look at the requirements of specific courses. There are too many variables to be able to give less specific advice.

At one point DCs' school organised the maths and FM modules do both were completed in year 13 but before this one DC completed maths in year 12 so uni offers were on the 3 being competed in year 13 only.

For STEM subjects DCs found FM was useful both for entry and for preparation. For gifted mathematicians they can cope with it as a 4th but for the 'plodders' ( I have both so not meant in a derogatory way - the later deserve more respect in my view!) the amount of work may well detract from other grades.

[Catseye]

For STEM subjects DCs found FM was useful both for entry and for preparation. For gifted mathematicians they can cope with it as a 4th but for the 'plodders' ( I have both so not meant in a derogatory way - the later deserve more respect in my view!) the amount of work may well detract from other grades.

Wise words again from KB , another giant of this forum

I think my son was a hard working "plodder" despite his early promise but I'm glad he did both maths and FM although he 'only' got an A in both and missed his offer for Manchester. It will hold him in good stead for the future.

FM, arguably the hardest A level is a specialist subject for specialist careers.

[Catseye]

Note some universities will make offers on all 4 for example Imperial College standard offers for C Sci are now A*A*A or A*A*A A + STEP 3

A* expected in FM :shock

Although Oxbridge and other Red Bricks will still only make offers on x3 A levels.

[SteveDH]

Note some universities will make offers on all 4 for example Imperial College standard offers for C Sci are now A*A*A or A*A*A A + STEP 3

A* expected in FM :shock

Although Oxbridge and other Red Bricks will still only make offers on x3 A levels.

Cambridge depends on the subject and college. The College my DD was pooled to was 2A* out of any of her 4 subjects and an A for the remaining 2. The college she had applied to would probably have been 2A*s and an 2As but all specified on particular subjects.
She could have just done 3 A levels in which case the offer would have just been A*A*A, but if you looked at the subjects they would like you to have done, you'd end up with 4 A levels.
BTW this was for engineering.

[KB]

All those we know ( quite a few) who were doing 4 A levels received an offer from Cambridge on the 4.
Where maths had been taken in year 12 the offer was for the 3 being taken in year 13.
Most of these people are from a school where 4 is the norm ( & up to now at least some have taken more) so that may make a difference.

But as I said it's difficult to predict the future from the past given the current changes just coming into play.