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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:04 pm 
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http://www.hepi.ac.uk/2018/07/02/degree ... versities/

So here is a thing: the 'better' your university (in terms of entry standards) the less likely you are to get a first. Richard Adams (Guardian) offers a commentary (Twitter):
Quote:
A couple of explanations. One is that a sustained and rapid improvement in teaching takes places mainly at low tariff universities. The other is less edifying.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:18 pm 
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I've been looking at this from the 'history' of my past students. Is it this simple?

Cambridge is still dominated by Private school students who, maybe, have been 'hot housed' to get top grades. I'd like to have seen a breakdown between state and Private entrants; does schooling make a difference?

I've often hear Admission people say that a student from a state school is better able to adapt to university teaching styles. Is this a factor?

I don't think there was ever equality between degree classes between different unis. Comparing the content of my maths degree with a fellow student at another university was quite enlightening at the time.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:34 am 
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You may find this
http://bernardrivers.com/exam-analysis/
and this
https://www.graduate.study.cam.ac.uk/admissions-statistics
of interest


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:41 am 
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SteveDH wrote:

Very Cambridge-specific: the first one is basically a rant, albeit with many seriously good points, but written in nasty blue bold font which makes it really hard to read. think the point in the original material I quoted was that it is not just Cambridge but a general trend. Perhaps my choice of title was unfortunate but it was meant to be an ironic take on some of the titles on here occasionally. :|


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:11 am 
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Apologies if I've just failed to pick this out, but 'entry standards' - what the stated requirements are? Or what the cohort actually got at A level etc?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:22 am 
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ToadMum wrote:
Apologies if I've just failed to pick this out, but 'entry standards' - what the stated requirements are? Or what the cohort actually got at A level etc?
As I understand it, they looked at both.
Quote:
The results were striking: the difference between the actual number of first class degrees awarded and the expected number based on the subject mix and entry standards of the university differed markedly between institutions, varying from over 30% fewer than expected to nearly 70% more than expected. Even more striking was what happened when we plotted this difference against the average tariff score of the students. The result was a strong negative correlation – the higher the tariff score of the students at the institution, the fewer the first class degrees awarded compared with the expected number (r=-0.502, p<0.001).


(My emphasis)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:42 am 
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Anyway I think the bottom line, it is pretty clear that not all degrees are made the same.
I wonder if employees take this into account, or is going to a university with better standards potential a disadvantage, especially as in most cases a degree below a 2.1 is effectively worthless.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:16 am 
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SteveDH wrote:
Anyway I think the bottom line, it is pretty clear that not all degrees are made the same.
I wonder if employees take this into account, or is going to a university with better standards potential a disadvantage, especially as in most cases a degree below a 2.1 is effectively worthless.
Yes I have started to wonder this too. I know so many young people who got firsts recently and without wanting to sound snotty, I do wonder how some of them did it. I also have a slight vested interest here as my older two are at, or about to be at, high tariff universities, and my daughter is working her socks off to try and get a first. If she doesn't make it and gets a 2:1, will she be looked down on by those who got firsts at low tariff universities, and if she is, is that a fair reflection of either her or their ability? I don't know.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Amber wrote:
SteveDH wrote:
Anyway I think the bottom line, it is pretty clear that not all degrees are made the same.
I wonder if employees take this into account, or is going to a university with better standards potential a disadvantage, especially as in most cases a degree below a 2.1 is effectively worthless.
Yes I have started to wonder this too. I know so many young people who got firsts recently and without wanting to sound snotty, I do wonder how some of them did it. I also have a slight vested interest here as my older two are at, or about to be at, high tariff universities, and my daughter is working her socks off to try and get a first. If she doesn't make it and gets a 2:1, will she be looked down on by those who got firsts at low tariff universities, and if she is, is that a fair reflection of either her or their ability? I don't know.


Really, one would hope that once they are out in the real world, the precise classification of someone else's degree would in day to day life be of very little interest to anyone. I certainly have no idea whether any of my former colleagues got a first or a pass degree, or, to be honest, a degree at all in some cases. Given the nature of our work, several had masters degree from the same institution (the one on Keppel Street, near Senate House :) ), but where from and what class of first degree was honestly never even a lukewarm, let alone a hot topic of conversation. Perhaps the public sector is just different...

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:22 pm 
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SteveDH wrote:
Anyway I think the bottom line, it is pretty clear that not all degrees are made the same.
I wonder if employees take this into account, or is going to a university with better standards potential a disadvantage, especially as in most cases a degree below a 2.1 is effectively worthless.

At the most recent AGR conference it was noted that the majority of member employers specified a minimum degree qualification of 2.1. In pursuit of widening participation they also removed any reference to the institution from which the candidate was graduating and in many cases removed details of A level grades. So, sadly SteveDH, the answer to your question is yes, at least at application screening stage.

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