Minimal practice and no coaching

CEM 11 Plus is the selective entrance exam administered by the Centre for Evaluation and Monitoring, Department of Education, University of Durham.

Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators

Post Reply
11 Plus Mocks - Practise the real exam experience - Book Now
ginx
Posts: 2151
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Warwickshire

Minimal practice and no coaching

Post by ginx »

My son has done a few Bond 10 minutes NVR and got most right, his short maths is good, his long maths not so, his VR poor and comprehension very poor - he does not read. He now recognizes he should have read more. Maybe that will be a lesson. He has done a handful of papers in total.

As he will get into a good comp. as he has a sibling there, I am not overly worried. I'm only worried when dc discuss their scores and I expect they will do well. I cannot see he will do well, although he is in the top half of his class for numeracy and literacy.

However, I am interested to see how he does in comparison to all his friends who have had paid coaching, most for a year. I wonder if he will get a very low score. It will be interesting to see. Can a child pass on natural ability? I suspect not - poor comprehension and no coaching or practice.

I will be so glad when Saturday is over - although fortunately he isn't worried.
grgygirl
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:09 am

Re: Minimal practice and no coaching

Post by grgygirl »

Best of luck to him Ginx! I think it's more than possible to pass, after all CEM is 'sold' as an untutorable exam ostensibly. In practice, I think a child needs to be able to work very quickly. You may be lucky and get a comp about something your ds is really interested in so he might be able to quickly understand the passage. I'm not sure if long maths/multi-step maths problems come up in the CEM exams. A good vocabulary seems to be the key and although you say he is not a reader, I've found that my friends who have very articulate children (some not readers either) tend to be the ones who converse a lot at home, around the table, debate, listen to Radio 4 etc.

I also think technique is important, not missing questions, not getting out of synch etc so hopefully if you've done a few papers then he'll have had some practice of this. Luckily you have a good alternative school option.
workingmom
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:47 am

Re: Minimal practice and no coaching

Post by workingmom »

Cannot agree more.

I think it is the technique and vocabulary for a CEM paper.

My DD is good at comprehending a passage, but when answering questions, she fails to read all the options and misses out a few words like "never" in an option, which results into a completely different meaning.
Aethel
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:24 pm

Re: Minimal practice and no coaching

Post by Aethel »

Good luck Ginx: at least he's having a go, and you might be surprised!

Is your CEM in Bucks, where many more "normal" children take the test? This does make it marginally more representative than the hyper-selectives, although multiple emails have chided me that out of cachement pupils often take the test which artificially inflates the marks when they don't have any intention of taking (or much hope of getting) a way out of cachment application.

We have DIY'd by my child's choice and I think it's been better for us psychologically, though who can tell if the outcome will differ because of that. It's certainly daunting comparing her to children who I know are probably less intelligent than her but may pass/get a better mark because they have been drilled ad infinitum. We just have to do our best for all our children....
JamesDean
Posts: 1537
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: Minimal practice and no coaching

Post by JamesDean »

Hi Ginx

My DS also did minimal practice and no coaching for the Warks exam and he did fine. (He also went to the loo during the second maths paper!) So what I'm saying is, its not impossible; just let him have a go. Getting a high score increases his choices, but having a good comp as a back up takes a pressure off - we were in the same boat 3 years ago :)

Good luck to your DS for Saturday,

JD
ginx
Posts: 2151
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Minimal practice and no coaching

Post by ginx »

Thanks for your positive comments.

I'm intrigued to see how he does. Whatever he says, he wants to pass. If he is the only one of his friends not to pass, he will be unhappy ... except that by going to a bilateral school, he will be at the same school if not in the same classes. He just won't be in the grammar stream.

I do not see how he can pass. If he had agreed to practice, it might all be different ...

Some of his friends are already stressed. He is not stressed at all :D what is the point? And he's had a brilliant summer playing outside whilst his friends go to their tutor.

Good luck to everyone.

Btw, we are in Warwickshire
ToadMum
Posts: 11944
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:41 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Minimal practice and no coaching

Post by ToadMum »

ginx wrote:Thanks for your positive comments.

I'm intrigued to see how he does. Whatever he says, he wants to pass. If he is the only one of his friends not to pass, he will be unhappy ... except that by going to a bilateral school, he will be at the same school if not in the same classes. He just won't be in the grammar stream.

I do not see how he can pass. If he had agreed to practice, it might all be different ...

Some of his friends are already stressed. He is not stressed at all :D what is the point? And he's had a brilliant summer playing outside whilst his friends go to their tutor.

Good luck to everyone.

Btw, we are in Warwickshire
'Go Ginx!', I say :D . Or, rather, 'Go DS2 of Ginx!' :D .

If he's happy and you're happy and not being in the grammar stream isn't actually going to cap what he can achieve, why worry? Best of luck to him, anyway :)
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
IncyWincy
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:19 pm

Re: Minimal practice and no coaching

Post by IncyWincy »

Good luck Ginx, yes an able child can qualify without much practice or coaching.

We did little more than buy some books for familiarisation for ours. The eldest spent a little time looking at them, she particularly enjoyed NVR so spent time doing that for fun, rather than the other materials which would probably have been of more benefit as they were her weaker areas. Although we tried to encourage her to do more, she really did very little.

We knew she was very capable but didn't know what to expect from the result, she came out saying it was hard and that she hadn't answered a lot of the questions. She qualified and the score was well above what was needed. Some of her friends had huge amounts of tutoring and homework (one had two years and was basically not allowed any playdates during yr5) and didn't qualify. Interestingly, the differential in scores was massively different with the CEM test, but they also did a paper for a super-selective (not sure which type but the suggested prep was AE Tuition books) and those scores were much closer.
It didn't matter for her, but I do wonder if eldest would have scored higher with tuition, which could well make all the difference for some. She had friends telling her that they achieved much higher scores.

Now waiting on next child, again minimal work, he hasn't done any on his own, but we have spent more time sitting down with him (probably about 3-4 papers in total). He doesn't have the same sharpness as eldest and we were more worried about damaging his confidence and self esteem if he spent huge amounts of time being tutored and didn't qualify. Not feeing at all hopeful, constantly wondering if we have done the right thing (either in not tutoring or in putting him in for the test in the first place). Like you, we also have excellent comprehensives so he should go to a good school whatever happens but I do worry about the comparison between friends at school who qualify and those that don't.
Last year our son was getting age standardised scores in the region of 112-115 for his maths, english etc tests at school, I guess this puts him in the top half but suspect it's not quite enough for grammar if they align in a similar way...
ginx
Posts: 2151
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Minimal practice and no coaching

Post by ginx »

IncyWincy,
Sounds just like my ds. He's just moved down two maths tables at school following tests last week, not a good omen. He's in the top half for literacy but nowhere near the top table. How I hate this "top table". They are not all the same; ds did enjoy his maths homework now he's on a lower table though. Easier homework! So there obviously is a difference.

I now believe, listening to his friends' comments (if they are true, of course) that if ds had been tutored, it may have improved his comprehension and vr at least. He is very pragmatic about this and thinks tutoring is a bad thing (probably echoing our opinions).

He quite enjoys nvr too. A few boys yesterday did admit they found the comprehension difficult. My ds said he didn't do any of it, though, and guessed vr, which is why there is no way he can have passed. I just hope not everybody passes - he is in a class of very bright boys, as far as I know all but one other had paid tutoring. These boys have terrific pressure on them to pass, which I think is sad.

Ds did also say that apart from a couple of familiarization things we had discussed (not sure I can mention it! but I've read they crop up every year), nothing I ever mentioned came up. Or is that just his way of making an excuse for refusing to do any work.

Even I am beginning to think it is a long time till 14 October. Just don't want a very low mark. At least I have my lovely virtual friends here to keep me going and it's interesting hearing the "beef" (my dd's latest word for gossip).

His main aim is still to get into the cross country scheme. That's all that matters! He wants to go to the comp, should get there, so why all the fuss - that's his attitude, and he's right. I think I'm going to have to admit I have a tiny hope he might do well, but I don't see how he can. I need to adopt his sensible attitude.

Edited to add: Rugby Free School tonight and Harris on Thursday. I'll say hello to any of you if I see you. :)
kenyancowgirl
Posts: 6738
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: Minimal practice and no coaching

Post by kenyancowgirl »

Ginx...I am fairly sure you are Warwickshire? If that is the case, then THERE IS NO PASS/FAIL for the Warks CEM test. So you can genuinely tell your son that he passed or did well - whatever hraseology you choose to use - whatever his score. If he did not rank high enough for the school of your choice, then that is what you tell him - you did really well, but, it is a numbers game and there were just a few more kids that did better than you and it is them that have been offered the place. Fundamentally, he has "done better" than all the kids who didn't even have a go, for whatever reason.

Some kids will have had lots of tuition but will still not pass; some kids will have had little or none (with the caveat that lots of parents will start talking about "only doing familiarisation" with their offspring but, inevitably, this will amount to weeks working through NVR/VR workbooks and amounts to turoting, albeit of a DIY kind!) - some of these will pass. Some of these kids would have passed with literally no tutoring - they are just that bright - I am constantly astounded at how very clever some of the children are at my son's school - like little old men - often so focussed on academia there isn't space for a lot else.

Far better to have a rounded, happy child, working at a level which challenges him in some areas and is easier in others. You may be pleasantly surprised at results time - you may be slightly disappointed - if his friends are horrid to him about it, then they aren't really that great as friends - he will move on and make new ones at secondary, wherever he goes.
Post Reply
11 Plus Mocks - Practise the real exam experience - Book Now