URGENT! SOUTHEND WAITING LISTS INFO
Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators
URGENT! SOUTHEND WAITING LISTS INFO
Hi all,
I have discovered that the waiting lists for the Southend Grammars have a flaw in the system and I hope to do something about it.
My son's waiting list position has gone further down the list since offers day due to "late applications", these are people who didn't have that particular school on their preferences but have since decided that as their child's score was good enough to gain a place they would make another application. I feel strongly that this is not fair.
Essex admissions no longer accept this practise and you are only placed on the waiting list if you made a preference for that school. Southend have admitted their wording is unclear. I don't believe the intention of their policy wording for late applications is not intended to give people a second shot but this is exactly what is happening.
I want to clarify the schools themselves are not involved in this process it's purely down to Southend Pupil Access. By all means phone them to query this information.
I know some of you reading this will be the ones who have submitted second applications. I know you are doing what you can to gain your child a grammar school place, but imagine how you'd feel if the school you had originally chosen placed you 10th on their waiting list then you went down to 20th because of people who had not felt this school suitable enough to place as a top 4 choice!!
I have discovered that the waiting lists for the Southend Grammars have a flaw in the system and I hope to do something about it.
My son's waiting list position has gone further down the list since offers day due to "late applications", these are people who didn't have that particular school on their preferences but have since decided that as their child's score was good enough to gain a place they would make another application. I feel strongly that this is not fair.
Essex admissions no longer accept this practise and you are only placed on the waiting list if you made a preference for that school. Southend have admitted their wording is unclear. I don't believe the intention of their policy wording for late applications is not intended to give people a second shot but this is exactly what is happening.
I want to clarify the schools themselves are not involved in this process it's purely down to Southend Pupil Access. By all means phone them to query this information.
I know some of you reading this will be the ones who have submitted second applications. I know you are doing what you can to gain your child a grammar school place, but imagine how you'd feel if the school you had originally chosen placed you 10th on their waiting list then you went down to 20th because of people who had not felt this school suitable enough to place as a top 4 choice!!
-
FlightyRachel
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 2:57 pm
- Location: Essex
I'm not sure what I think about late applications; in a way I think it's good that those children underestimated by their parents and/or schools get another chance. But on the other hand, it must be absolutely horrible for you and your ds to find he is actually going DOWN the waiting list. I didn't know that could happen.
I think the whole Southend system could do with an overhaul. The current extreme bias towards in borough candidates leads to some children gaining places who then score KS3 levels which wouldn't put them in the top streams at my local comp (Level 4 and 5). That can't be right, and leads to the grammars just being used as a way to mix with a 'nice class of kid' rather than enabling them to pursue academic excellence.
I think the whole Southend system could do with an overhaul. The current extreme bias towards in borough candidates leads to some children gaining places who then score KS3 levels which wouldn't put them in the top streams at my local comp (Level 4 and 5). That can't be right, and leads to the grammars just being used as a way to mix with a 'nice class of kid' rather than enabling them to pursue academic excellence.
I think it's more of a case of children that hadn't achieved a place at somewhere like Kegs or Colchester whose parents hadn't factored Westcliff as a preference. Why should some be given a second chance, I would love my son to have another chance at sitting an 11+ test!
The CSSE information clearly states a child will not be considered for a place at a school (regardless of score) unless he has made a preference for it, why should that change for the waiting list situation?
The CSSE information clearly states a child will not be considered for a place at a school (regardless of score) unless he has made a preference for it, why should that change for the waiting list situation?
-
Chelmsford mum
- Posts: 2113
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:16 pm
I agree its unfair.You couldn't decide to suddenly be put on a different comp waiting list just because you had a change of heart in some way.We all made our choices in Oct and should stick to them.
I would have been very upset if my dd had started going in the wrong direction down the list.I think the changes of heart are panic.I can understand that.You wonder if your local school is as good as you hoped.You then think perhaps the grammars you ruled out are the better option.I know- I went through all of those feelings but really its not fair and preferences should be honoured.I certainly know someone who asked to go on another comp waiting list and was told not until Sept as you didn't name it on your form.
Should be the same with the grammars. The Southend pass mark in borough does seem low but if thats the pass mark, then those who achieved it and NAMED the school should get priority.
I would have been very upset if my dd had started going in the wrong direction down the list.I think the changes of heart are panic.I can understand that.You wonder if your local school is as good as you hoped.You then think perhaps the grammars you ruled out are the better option.I know- I went through all of those feelings but really its not fair and preferences should be honoured.I certainly know someone who asked to go on another comp waiting list and was told not until Sept as you didn't name it on your form.
Should be the same with the grammars. The Southend pass mark in borough does seem low but if thats the pass mark, then those who achieved it and NAMED the school should get priority.
-
FlightyRachel
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 2:57 pm
- Location: Essex
I can see your point, but my guess would be that it was designed for local children whose parents put one of the 'better' comps first, not thinking they would score highly enough to get a grammar place. If their score turned out to be high, I can understand why the facility is there to make a late application... it's not very well advertised though is it? Another of those snippets of info that certain groups of parents are party to, I suspect!Silver29 wrote:I think it's more of a case of children that hadn't achieved a place at somewhere like Kegs or Colchester whose parents hadn't factored Westcliff as a preference. Why should some be given a second chance, I would love my son to have another chance at sitting an 11+ test!
-
Looking for help
- Posts: 3767
- Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
- Location: Berkshire
What kind of parents put their children through an 11+ test if they don't think they will do well enough 
I am absolutely horrified that my child did not pass the test, the feeling of overwhelming guilt is almost too terrible to bear. If I had thought for one second he wouldn't have passed I would never have considered sitting the test in the first place, so I am at a loss to understand why someone would put down their safe comp bet as first choice and the grammar as second. Either way you look at it it is ridiculous to put your child through the test on that basis.
These children are babies really, and do not need this amount of pressure.
There I've said my piece, I'll get back to the housework
I am absolutely horrified that my child did not pass the test, the feeling of overwhelming guilt is almost too terrible to bear. If I had thought for one second he wouldn't have passed I would never have considered sitting the test in the first place, so I am at a loss to understand why someone would put down their safe comp bet as first choice and the grammar as second. Either way you look at it it is ridiculous to put your child through the test on that basis.
These children are babies really, and do not need this amount of pressure.
There I've said my piece, I'll get back to the housework
Hi there, I feel a bit thick, but having had two children already do the eleven plus and gain a place (out of area) at southend grammars, I cannot believe what I am reading.
I still have one child to go through this process and am dreading it. I have always been under the impression that we make our choices prior to our children sitting the exam, and that is that. My eldest luckily gained a place at Westcliff and in hindsight I can't believe that we didn't also put down Southend, but he really didn't like it on the open day. Had he not gained a place at Westcliff but had a high enough mark for Southend, I would have been gutted but would have accepted it as it was our decision not to put it down. (I know this probably wouldn't happen in that way with these schools, but I'm talking hypothetically).
Are you saying that we could have actually changed our minds in this circumstance and then applied to Southend, or does it only apply to Southend Borough applicants?
The whole system is a nightmare and such huge decisions to make, along with the pressure on children who actually sit the exam on the day, I can't believe that they can then move down the waiting list due to this. If this has happened to your son, I really sympathise. It's absolutely not right, and just playing terrible games with childrens hopes and expectations, not to mention yours.
Is your son aware of where he is/has been on the list?
I still have one child to go through this process and am dreading it. I have always been under the impression that we make our choices prior to our children sitting the exam, and that is that. My eldest luckily gained a place at Westcliff and in hindsight I can't believe that we didn't also put down Southend, but he really didn't like it on the open day. Had he not gained a place at Westcliff but had a high enough mark for Southend, I would have been gutted but would have accepted it as it was our decision not to put it down. (I know this probably wouldn't happen in that way with these schools, but I'm talking hypothetically).
Are you saying that we could have actually changed our minds in this circumstance and then applied to Southend, or does it only apply to Southend Borough applicants?
The whole system is a nightmare and such huge decisions to make, along with the pressure on children who actually sit the exam on the day, I can't believe that they can then move down the waiting list due to this. If this has happened to your son, I really sympathise. It's absolutely not right, and just playing terrible games with childrens hopes and expectations, not to mention yours.
Is your son aware of where he is/has been on the list?
I know it's mad isn't it? We are out of catchment and as I understand it, the people who have jumped in ahead of my son will also be from out of catchment.
Luckily my son doesn't know anything about waiting list positions as I don't want him getting stressed any further. As far as he knows he just missed getting a place at WHSB and will now be going to our local comp.
Luckily my son doesn't know anything about waiting list positions as I don't want him getting stressed any further. As far as he knows he just missed getting a place at WHSB and will now be going to our local comp.
Silver29
I understand your anger and frustration.
There is another scenario you may not have considered.
Our DS never passed both the KEGs and ICH exams, though KEGs was more of a practice run for ICH for nerves. However we were never granted any of our preference choices and allocated a poor Comp which is so poor to be totally unsuitable.
However our DS scored highly at KEGs 345 there abouts that would easily have gained a place at Westcliff or Southend. We didn't put these down because of the distance. We haven't changed our minds either because we will go Independent and the distance is too far for us anyway.
However if we were really desperate we would have had to consider Westcliff or Southend with the score our DS got. If the original idea is to take the best pupils for Grammars then I am sorry to say to you that an higher score should carry more weight in the grand scheme of things.
I do sympathise with you but you must also see that preferences made in October can and do change given the new information of the test results and of course the actual school allocated by the local authority!!
I understand your anger and frustration.
This isn't true though is it, it is the initial preference choice change you are annoyed at.I would love my son to have another chance at sitting an 11+ test!
There is another scenario you may not have considered.
Our DS never passed both the KEGs and ICH exams, though KEGs was more of a practice run for ICH for nerves. However we were never granted any of our preference choices and allocated a poor Comp which is so poor to be totally unsuitable.
However our DS scored highly at KEGs 345 there abouts that would easily have gained a place at Westcliff or Southend. We didn't put these down because of the distance. We haven't changed our minds either because we will go Independent and the distance is too far for us anyway.
However if we were really desperate we would have had to consider Westcliff or Southend with the score our DS got. If the original idea is to take the best pupils for Grammars then I am sorry to say to you that an higher score should carry more weight in the grand scheme of things.
I do sympathise with you but you must also see that preferences made in October can and do change given the new information of the test results and of course the actual school allocated by the local authority!!
