Support evidence?
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Support evidence?
Hi there - I'm a first time poster 
I'm putting together an appeal for our DS who's just scored a shocker of a low double (!) in the Bucks 11+
He's currently at level 5 (predicted 5As) for SATs, had a 1:1 recommendation from the Head Teacher and extremely strong support from his school, plus NFER practice papers over a year with scores in the mid 90s (as a percentage) (I know this figure won't add anything to an appeal but it showed us he was more than capable...)
It's going to be a very tough appeal - DS has never done any CATs - it's not something we've ever come across in our borough - would you advise getting some done privately in support of an appeal or is there a different test we could do which would be better for appeal evidence? We just don't have any other data which supports the appeal apart from SATs....
(And - out of interest - statistically what are the odds of getting the same score on both papers - especially an unexpectedly low one?!)
Any thoughts/suggestions much appreciated,
Many thanks!
I'm putting together an appeal for our DS who's just scored a shocker of a low double (!) in the Bucks 11+
He's currently at level 5 (predicted 5As) for SATs, had a 1:1 recommendation from the Head Teacher and extremely strong support from his school, plus NFER practice papers over a year with scores in the mid 90s (as a percentage) (I know this figure won't add anything to an appeal but it showed us he was more than capable...)
It's going to be a very tough appeal - DS has never done any CATs - it's not something we've ever come across in our borough - would you advise getting some done privately in support of an appeal or is there a different test we could do which would be better for appeal evidence? We just don't have any other data which supports the appeal apart from SATs....
(And - out of interest - statistically what are the odds of getting the same score on both papers - especially an unexpectedly low one?!)
Any thoughts/suggestions much appreciated,
Many thanks!
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Sally-Anne
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- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Kettner76
It's always a shame when first time posters have to make their debut on the Appeals section.
What were the actual scores?
I would say that an assessment from an Education Psychologist is possibly the only way that you may win this if the scores are really low. It will unfortunately not be cheap - around £400, but if it proves your daughter's high ability, it will be worth the expense.
Do you have any extenuating circumstances at all? How did your daughter feel on the days of the tests - before and after? Were there any disruptions during the tests? Does the Head have any idea what went wrong for her?
I have no idea what the odds are on getting the same score on both papers in broad terms. However from my experience of appeal scores posted on here it is probably around 5% or thereabouts.
Sally-Anne
It's always a shame when first time posters have to make their debut on the Appeals section.
What were the actual scores?
I would say that an assessment from an Education Psychologist is possibly the only way that you may win this if the scores are really low. It will unfortunately not be cheap - around £400, but if it proves your daughter's high ability, it will be worth the expense.
Do you have any extenuating circumstances at all? How did your daughter feel on the days of the tests - before and after? Were there any disruptions during the tests? Does the Head have any idea what went wrong for her?
I have no idea what the odds are on getting the same score on both papers in broad terms. However from my experience of appeal scores posted on here it is probably around 5% or thereabouts.
Sally-Anne
Hi Sally-Anne,
Thanks for replying so quickly
The scores were all the 1s!
111 & 111.......
We (the parents and the school) still can't quite work out how he managed to get those scores considering his abilities - he was very well-prepared, is usually fine under pressure, he felt he did well in both tests.... he estimated his score at about 93% (based on practice runs in test conditions) - I would have understood if his mark had been a borderline fail, but we just don't know what would have caused such an unexpectedly low result! On both tests! (hence my query about the odds of a double score)
The only extenuating circumstance is that we were in the process of moving house - maybe that caused subconscious pressure we weren't aware of, we're just not sure but can't think of any other reason....
We'll probably get the assessment done - it would be worth the expense for extra proof - I'm just flummoxed to know what to do!
Thanks again!
Kettner76
Thanks for replying so quickly
The scores were all the 1s!
111 & 111.......
We (the parents and the school) still can't quite work out how he managed to get those scores considering his abilities - he was very well-prepared, is usually fine under pressure, he felt he did well in both tests.... he estimated his score at about 93% (based on practice runs in test conditions) - I would have understood if his mark had been a borderline fail, but we just don't know what would have caused such an unexpectedly low result! On both tests! (hence my query about the odds of a double score)
The only extenuating circumstance is that we were in the process of moving house - maybe that caused subconscious pressure we weren't aware of, we're just not sure but can't think of any other reason....
We'll probably get the assessment done - it would be worth the expense for extra proof - I'm just flummoxed to know what to do!
Thanks again!
Kettner76
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Kettner76
Sorry I mistook your son for a daughter! It happens sometimes when flitting from thread to thread.
Funnily enough I was thinking 111 & 111 when I was replying to you. They are low, aren't they, and I can understand your mystification.
I think a very strong EP report is the only solution to this one, and even then it could still be uphill, I'm afraid. However an EP report is always of interest and can prove useful in future.
Just in case - which month is his birthday?
Sally-Anne
Sorry I mistook your son for a daughter! It happens sometimes when flitting from thread to thread.
Funnily enough I was thinking 111 & 111 when I was replying to you. They are low, aren't they, and I can understand your mystification.
I think a very strong EP report is the only solution to this one, and even then it could still be uphill, I'm afraid. However an EP report is always of interest and can prove useful in future.
Just in case - which month is his birthday?
Sally-Anne
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Midget Man
- Posts: 950
- Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:28 pm
- Location: Bucks
Hi Sally-Anne,
His Birthday is February, and yes - 111 & 111 are incredibly low! We've requested a remark and test analysis as well so we can try and see what went wrong, but I think we'll have to do the Educational Psychologist report asap - I've seen the link on the site to a list of psychologists - if anyone knows of good ones who specialise in CAT tests (in the South Bucks/Berks area) I'd be grateful for any recommendations!
I know it will be uphill, but we'll pull out all the stops to succeed with this one!
Thank you so much for the advice,
Kettner76
His Birthday is February, and yes - 111 & 111 are incredibly low! We've requested a remark and test analysis as well so we can try and see what went wrong, but I think we'll have to do the Educational Psychologist report asap - I've seen the link on the site to a list of psychologists - if anyone knows of good ones who specialise in CAT tests (in the South Bucks/Berks area) I'd be grateful for any recommendations!
I know it will be uphill, but we'll pull out all the stops to succeed with this one!
Thank you so much for the advice,
Kettner76
The 11+ is, of course, a completely different sort of measurement than SATs.
We do get cases where there's a marked difference between achievement in the curriculum and reasoning tests.
I agree with S-A that you do need to get some sort of alternative testing done to establish whether your son is just not very good at VR or whether the 11+ scores were a fluke.
It would also be interesting to see whether his natural strengths lie elsewhere (e.g. in non-verbal reasoning) as this might possibly be grounds for an appeal.
We do get cases where there's a marked difference between achievement in the curriculum and reasoning tests.
I agree with S-A that you do need to get some sort of alternative testing done to establish whether your son is just not very good at VR or whether the 11+ scores were a fluke.
It would also be interesting to see whether his natural strengths lie elsewhere (e.g. in non-verbal reasoning) as this might possibly be grounds for an appeal.
Etienne
Support evidence?
Hi Etienne & Sally-Anne - apologies for not posting a "thank-you" for your responses earlier - you were both so helpful! (as is the forum overall)
We didn't pursue the EP report as, after further talks with DS's Headteacher, it turned out they had alternative academic evidence in the form of previous VR(124) & NVR(134) tests done in year 5. (So he is obviously a bit better at NVR but maybe not so much as would explain such a low 11+ score?)
We received our test analysis, however, and I would love to know how you feel it would be interpreted by a panel..... On all sections bar 2 on each paper he got nearly 100% right - on those other two sections he got practically 100% wrong! And there was no consistency in terms of which ones he "fluffed up"!
Would you interpret that as carelessness? Or maybe over-confidence? And do you think it would be viewed in a negative way by a panel? I know they will see the analysis so I'm wondering how best to present it in a positive light?!
Sorry - that's a very long question (I know you're extremely busy!) - it's so great to hear informed opinions on this so any feedback gratefully received!!
Many thanks!!
Kettner76
We didn't pursue the EP report as, after further talks with DS's Headteacher, it turned out they had alternative academic evidence in the form of previous VR(124) & NVR(134) tests done in year 5. (So he is obviously a bit better at NVR but maybe not so much as would explain such a low 11+ score?)
We received our test analysis, however, and I would love to know how you feel it would be interpreted by a panel..... On all sections bar 2 on each paper he got nearly 100% right - on those other two sections he got practically 100% wrong! And there was no consistency in terms of which ones he "fluffed up"!
Would you interpret that as carelessness? Or maybe over-confidence? And do you think it would be viewed in a negative way by a panel? I know they will see the analysis so I'm wondering how best to present it in a positive light?!
Sorry - that's a very long question (I know you're extremely busy!) - it's so great to hear informed opinions on this so any feedback gratefully received!!
Many thanks!!
Kettner76
I suspect a panel would take note if the test was unfinished (i.e. there appear to be a lot of unanswered questions), but otherwise I'm rather doubtful that they would have a view - generally speaking - about the analysis.Would you interpret that as carelessness? Or maybe over-confidence? And do you think it would be viewed in a negative way by a panel? I know they will see the analysis so I'm wondering how best to present it in a positive light?!
I'm not sure you need to 'present' it as such. The information is not there as part of your case (unless you wish to use it for that purpose). You asked to see it out of interest.
Hope this helps.
Etienne
