Help - why huge discrepancy?

[Freya]

So, DS has:

- IQ score of 120 (91st %ile)

- MidYIS NVR score of 122 (standardised - top 6% of population), Band A, stanine 8

- MidYIS Skills score of 107 (standardised - top 30% of population), Band B, stanine 6

- MidYIS vocabulary and maths scores of 102 & 103 (just above average), Band B, stanine 5

- Overall : standard score = 110, Band B, stanine 6, percentile 74

There is a 20 point difference between his NVR and 'Vocab' tests which is puzzling me. I've done some research that seems to say that it is unusual to have more than a 15 point difference between NVR and VR-type tests.

School have been brilliant, readily sharing and discussing DS's scores. I think the NVR score surprised them and they have assured us that DS will be stretched, encouraged, enabled to improve in maths and 'vocab' whereas they might not have bothered so much before, thinking that he was a 'just above average' child.

They have said that given the high NVR score, DS ought to be doing better, particularly in maths - which is what I have been saying since year 5. So I'm pleased they have picked this up and will be doing something about it.

Has anyone had experience of such a large discrepancy i.e. very high NVR and just above average maths / vocab? Does anyone know of anyone who has closed this gap over time? Does anyone think my DS has a 'problem'? Does effectively seeing the World through only one eye influence such things?

He was a late reader and writer, even later to read properly for himself (end of year 4). When he did read and write it came suddenly, not a gradual process at all. His handwriting is awful.

Would be interested to hear thoughts

[T.i.p.s.y]

I cannot help on this issue but I have experience of IQ tests being different and conflicting. A friend of mine has a son whose IQ is off the scale and when he sat for a selective school they said, based on exam results, it was an avergage IQ. So I assume many tests do not test for everything so certain strengths can be missed. It is good, however, that they cannot dispute his maths ability now.

[SSM]

I have no experience of MidYis, but a large difference between NVR and VR scores could indicate something like dyslexia.

My sons dyslexia was not picked up by his school, it was just thought that English and VR was not his strong point. I took him to an EdPsych who tested him, and like your son, had a huge gap between his NVR scores and VR. The Ed Psych then diagnosed him as being dyslexic, but said it was not picked up by the school as he was intelligent enough to get by.

Good luck with fathoming out your sons scores.

[youngest]

I think variation is usual in MidYis.

DD on the basis of these was top set Maths and Science but not for English. Sorry can't remember the scores but it does fit her (DH, DS1, DS2 and I are the same)

DS1 on NFER Nelson Verbal reasoning used to get 100% on Mathemetical type question groups and 0 on some of the "Word" types. He's at a different school to DD so no MidYis for him.

[Sally-Anne]

I am seeing little hints of something in those scores - it could be mild dyslexia, as SSM has said, but I suspect it may be more complex than that.

If you could possibly find the money Freya, I would consider taking him to be assessed by an Educational Psychologist. The cost is around £400 - £450.

You might also consider an assessment by a specialist Optometrist to check that his other eye is working as well as it should be. That might be affecting him in a number of ways.

I wonder if the "Skills" result, which is made up of two different tests might actually have been made up of one very high score and one much lower score? I'm not sure if the school has the raw scores, but it is worth asking.

His vocab score isn't surprising given that he came to reading so late, but the school should be doing more to support him in the light of that.

There is no doubt that the school has let him down on maths, so it is good that they are taking that seriously.

[Freya]

Thanks everyone for your comments, especially Sally-Anne for such a knowledgeable and helpful reply.

I will see whether we can get hold of his raw scores for skills and will consider EP assessment because these scores are intriguing.

He sees an optometrist regularly and basically he can see perfectly with one eye but the other is extremely long sighted and was 'lazy' for years. His eyes are straight now (naturally - no cosmetic surgery) and he does not have to wear glasses but his vision is definitely quite badly impaired in the bad eye.

What kind of ways would a bad eye affect him?

Just to clarify - his current (independent) school is being fabulous. He is in year 7 and we have only just got back the MidYIS results. We feel that it was his primary school that let him down in maths. The danger was that his current school would not see his potential (which I knew he has) and have him down as 'average' with the associated expectations. Thanks to these tests they now know differently and have said they will give him the support he needs to achieve his true potential.

So, no battles with the school there. I'm just trying to understand what's going on with him.

[T.i.p.s.y]

Well they only discovered I was dyslexic when I went back to college aged 28. I always knew something wasn't quite right but coasted a GCSE level and then couldn't cope at A'level. I think every child should see an ed psych as knowledge about their strengths and weakness can solve a lot of problems and potential heartache.

[KB]

Would def. advise having proper assessment done if you can.
If you are at an independent they may have someone they 'use' who might do it in school - less disruptive (although you still have to pay!)

My DC very bright but have very similar SLDs - related to dyslexia but more complex!
Their scores on different tests are all similar to each other but pattern not been seen by any of the different specialists who have tested them at different times.

Has allowed them to get some support wher needed but mostly has helped them to understand & deal with the difficulties themselves.

Eldest had nightmare time with writing - especially at primary school.
Just started writing essays in 2nd year at Uni - requirement of the optional course he really wanted to do - & is actually enjoying it!

[Sally-Anne]

Thanks everyone for your comments, especially Sally-Anne for such a knowledgeable and helpful reply.

A pleasure Freya.

Do ask around before choosing an EP. I have seen reports that are simply masterpieces and others that are disgracefully short - 2-3 pages, and clearly not written for the specific child. (Tell-tale signs like "Fred" suddenly becoming "John" on a later page. )

Also ask which test batteries they propose using and check back with me. Although I am not an expert, I have read a fair few of these reports and I research the background information on each one in terms of the implications. Etienne is of course invaluable on such issues. I don't imagine she drops by "Everything Else" very often, but I will point her this way if her advice would be helpful at any time.

My DC very bright but have very similar SLDs - related to dyslexia but more complex!

Exactly - an EP report will give you a breakdown of the issues into their component parts, which is what you are missing at present. Things like working memory, short-term memory, processing speeds, visual ability, graphic ability, etc. Terms like "dyslexia" and "dyspraxia" are really catch-all phrases.

A report would also be very helpful in determining if any access arrangements should be made in future, especially for exams, although for GCSE a "refresher" report would probably be needed, because the evidence should be fairly recent. Do check that your EP isn't planning to retire or go off to do VSO in the Amazonian rainforest in the next few years!

[pixiequeen]

Freya, I have no advice to offer about your DS's scores, but I can share some info. about the vision problems, if it's any help.

My DD who is year 5 had exactly the same - one very long sighted eye with poor vision which was 'patched' for a couple of years and one not so bad eye. Her eyes don't turn in when she's got her glasses on but her eye sight isn't brilliant in either eye (she can still function without her specs though so it can't be too bad.)

I've never had my DD IQ tested and we haven't even had any CAT results from school yet. However she is definitely better at Literacy than maths.

Our Opthalmist said her main problems will be having no 3D vision and therefore poor judgement of speed and distance. Interestly so far we haven't found those things a problem. What I think is a problem (and my DD2 has the same eye problems) is what I think experts call 'eye tracking'. DD2 especially finds it her to move her focus when she is reading. When she gets to the end of a line, she can't see the beginning of the next one without using her finger to point with. However there is also the possibility that this is due to the mild dyspraxia that DD1 and DD2 have - aren't children complicated?

We had DD1 assessed years ago by an occupational therapist through the NHS which explained alot of her funny quirks.