Advice Please
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Advice Please
Hello new to all this ! Am regular working class dad has daughter who is doing vwell at school she is YR 5 Level5 across board ? in G and T and is currently doing tuition thanks (to mum ! ) every Sat for 1hour. We want her to goto grammar school but have also been made aware that some children can get burseries to Ind school based on academic execellence. Which would be preferable esp considering our social status ! Also what kind of standard are the pupils that get burseries/scholarships for these schools ? How many schools can DD apply for through LEA and does this inc Ind schools ? How many pupils apply for 11+ and roughly how many get accepted into schools ? Phew !!!
Any help will be GREATLY appreciated ! Many thanks.
Any help will be GREATLY appreciated ! Many thanks.
Hi and welcome to the forum,
Few things I can help on;
I was told that in some cases Indies can be more socially mixed than Grammars because people with the funds to do so, buy houses in the catchment for the grammars and pay for tutoring, while the Indies give out bursaries and scholarships.
For bursaries and scholarships, it varies school to school, but it's always worth applying, worse they can do is say no.
You do not put Indies on your Secondary school application known as a CAF, the number of schools you can apply to changes region to region.
The amount of pupils applying and passing also varies school to school.
I don't have any knowledge of Birmingham schools but I'm sure someone will be along fairly soon who does
Few things I can help on;
I was told that in some cases Indies can be more socially mixed than Grammars because people with the funds to do so, buy houses in the catchment for the grammars and pay for tutoring, while the Indies give out bursaries and scholarships.
For bursaries and scholarships, it varies school to school, but it's always worth applying, worse they can do is say no.
You do not put Indies on your Secondary school application known as a CAF, the number of schools you can apply to changes region to region.
The amount of pupils applying and passing also varies school to school.
I don't have any knowledge of Birmingham schools but I'm sure someone will be along fairly soon who does
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hermanmunster
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Hi BTdad
You can apply for a number of scools on a form called the CAF ... varies up to 6 ... dependent on part of the country.. these are ALL state schools including grammar schools.
You can then apply to as many independents as you like but don't wear the poor child out as the exams can be exhausting - and each exam can be looking for different things
Before you start on the indie route check on the levels of bursaries available at each school - there is huge demand for these now and large numbers of people applying - I suspect that the level of support is likely to be relatively low unless you are on a very low income. - many find themselves too rich for financial support but too hard up to pay the fees.
There is a fair bit of info on the B'ham section so have read through the other posts ... you will be well informed after this..
You can apply for a number of scools on a form called the CAF ... varies up to 6 ... dependent on part of the country.. these are ALL state schools including grammar schools.
You can then apply to as many independents as you like but don't wear the poor child out as the exams can be exhausting - and each exam can be looking for different things
Before you start on the indie route check on the levels of bursaries available at each school - there is huge demand for these now and large numbers of people applying - I suspect that the level of support is likely to be relatively low unless you are on a very low income. - many find themselves too rich for financial support but too hard up to pay the fees.
There is a fair bit of info on the B'ham section so have read through the other posts ... you will be well informed after this..
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hermanmunster
- Posts: 12897
- Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:51 am
- Location: The Seaside
Hi BTdad,
Since you're posting on the Birmingham forum I assume you live in Birmingham? If so you can apply for 6 state schools (most of the surrounding authorities don't give you quite so many options).
This link gives the level of support you might get with an assisted place at KEHS:
http://www.kehs.org.uk/UserFiles/File/T ... INGHAM.pdf
I don't think the other independent schools publish this kind of information, you'd have to talk to them. You need a very good performance in the selection process to qualify for a bursary in most cases - but it sounds to me as though your daughter is at the kind of level where she would be in with a fair chance. (Note - apart from KEHS, which is in a class of its own, the local independents are not a match for the KE grammars academically.)
Social mix - there are no catchment areas for any of the local grammars, you could apply from Penzance if you wanted, so you can't buy your way into them in that respect. My perception is that they're mostly very middle class, but (purely on the basis of what I've seen at open days, exam days, etc.) at least as socially mixed as KES and KEHS.
Numbers taking 11+: not easy to unpick in Birmingham. As far as I remember, it usually works out at about 3600 applying to the KE grammars for 595 places, but there's also the Sutton Coldfield grammars, Handsworth grammar and the Walsall grammars, and it's pretty much impossible to work out how many people in total apply because so many people will apply to more than one.
Mike
Since you're posting on the Birmingham forum I assume you live in Birmingham? If so you can apply for 6 state schools (most of the surrounding authorities don't give you quite so many options).
This link gives the level of support you might get with an assisted place at KEHS:
http://www.kehs.org.uk/UserFiles/File/T ... INGHAM.pdf
I don't think the other independent schools publish this kind of information, you'd have to talk to them. You need a very good performance in the selection process to qualify for a bursary in most cases - but it sounds to me as though your daughter is at the kind of level where she would be in with a fair chance. (Note - apart from KEHS, which is in a class of its own, the local independents are not a match for the KE grammars academically.)
Social mix - there are no catchment areas for any of the local grammars, you could apply from Penzance if you wanted, so you can't buy your way into them in that respect. My perception is that they're mostly very middle class, but (purely on the basis of what I've seen at open days, exam days, etc.) at least as socially mixed as KES and KEHS.
Numbers taking 11+: not easy to unpick in Birmingham. As far as I remember, it usually works out at about 3600 applying to the KE grammars for 595 places, but there's also the Sutton Coldfield grammars, Handsworth grammar and the Walsall grammars, and it's pretty much impossible to work out how many people in total apply because so many people will apply to more than one.
Mike
Many thanks for all the advice. Some great info! Just trying to work out the best thing to do ! The local comprehensives are really not an option, typical inner city schools that are really not doing to well 
SO fingers and everything else crossed we can help her to get a decent education and a better start in life 
SO fingers and everything else crossed we can help her to get a decent education and a better start in life Hi there
Indi schools and state grammar school have different requirements. for the Grammar schools they need to be on the state application form which you must have submitted in late October. The Birmingham one has a list of upto 6 schools of your choice. These can vary of how how many grammar schools you want to put down,and comprehensive schools if any. However one test is sat for the King Edward Foundation ie for Girls - CHG/Five Way and Hansworth, and for Boys CHB/Five Ways and Aston. The other grammar schools are seperate from the Foundation but regarded as the grammar schools.
The indi schools are seperate. However, my DS sat both grammar and indi school tests, and they are very much similar to each other. He has gained substantial marks to gain a place at 3 indi schools. All we wait for now is the grammar schools test results which are provided by the LEA, who will notify us of what school our child has got a place at. They will notify us on terms of ranking and mark results.
I hope this helps
Indi schools and state grammar school have different requirements. for the Grammar schools they need to be on the state application form which you must have submitted in late October. The Birmingham one has a list of upto 6 schools of your choice. These can vary of how how many grammar schools you want to put down,and comprehensive schools if any. However one test is sat for the King Edward Foundation ie for Girls - CHG/Five Way and Hansworth, and for Boys CHB/Five Ways and Aston. The other grammar schools are seperate from the Foundation but regarded as the grammar schools.
The indi schools are seperate. However, my DS sat both grammar and indi school tests, and they are very much similar to each other. He has gained substantial marks to gain a place at 3 indi schools. All we wait for now is the grammar schools test results which are provided by the LEA, who will notify us of what school our child has got a place at. They will notify us on terms of ranking and mark results.
I hope this helps
Hello,
You're posting this in Birmingham where none of the Grammar schools has any catchment area, so although I appreciate Nathair is trying to be helpful he may not be aware of this.
Here in Birmingham you have relatively good transport links to the Grammars, by both public train and buses as well as the Green school buses which operate from many areas of the city. And neither the KE Grammars or Bishop Vesey or Sutton Girls have any catchment at all, so there is no need to move near to them (except for convenience I suppose).
And certainlt I've not heard of the middle classes looking to move to Aston or Handsworth although they'd love to send their kids to the KE's there - they'd rather send them in on a Green bus I think.
So there is no doubt that in Birmingham the Grammars are certainly more socially inclusive than the Independent schools.
That said if your income is low and your child is bright you could be looking at a good busary for KEHS. But you'd still need to afford the trips, etc etc. Its worth going to see the schools and making your own decision in any case.
Good luck
You're posting this in Birmingham where none of the Grammar schools has any catchment area, so although I appreciate Nathair is trying to be helpful he may not be aware of this.
Here in Birmingham you have relatively good transport links to the Grammars, by both public train and buses as well as the Green school buses which operate from many areas of the city. And neither the KE Grammars or Bishop Vesey or Sutton Girls have any catchment at all, so there is no need to move near to them (except for convenience I suppose).
And certainlt I've not heard of the middle classes looking to move to Aston or Handsworth although they'd love to send their kids to the KE's there - they'd rather send them in on a Green bus I think.
So there is no doubt that in Birmingham the Grammars are certainly more socially inclusive than the Independent schools.
That said if your income is low and your child is bright you could be looking at a good busary for KEHS. But you'd still need to afford the trips, etc etc. Its worth going to see the schools and making your own decision in any case.
Good luck
Your quite right um, I didn't know about the lack of catchment areas, and I was only repeating what I had been told is true for some areas of the country. I am however definitely of the female persuasionum wrote:Hello,
You're posting this in Birmingham where none of the Grammar schools has any catchment area, so although I appreciate Nathair is trying to be helpful he may not be aware of this.
Here in Birmingham you have relatively good transport links to the Grammars, by both public train and buses as well as the Green school buses which operate from many areas of the city. And neither the KE Grammars or Bishop Vesey or Sutton Girls have any catchment at all, so there is no need to move near to them (except for convenience I suppose).
And certainlt I've not heard of the middle classes looking to move to Aston or Handsworth although they'd love to send their kids to the KE's there - they'd rather send them in on a Green bus I think.
So there is no doubt that in Birmingham the Grammars are certainly more socially inclusive than the Independent schools.
That said if your income is low and your child is bright you could be looking at a good busary for KEHS. But you'd still need to afford the trips, etc etc. Its worth going to see the schools and making your own decision in any case.
Good luck
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Wow so grammars are more inclusive than indies ! Well I do live in birmingham and I am around average income but am only income coming into house things are tight ! Well as for DD being bright not as much as I may have first thought 
I know she is intelligent/bright but I am discovering just what kind of level she has to be at. I feel it will be vocabulary which will need most work at the mo ! I really would like her to make GS, and was not aware how good child has to be to get this or an offer of bursury at indie so am just trying to find all this out. We were advised by many not to go too heavy until yr5 so we were a little laid back about it, plus all the positive praise from school, which we thought was a good school and indeed does have a good reputation, but I am discovering that we have alot of ground to gain !
As for transport yes I am aware of all public transport and Green bus, in fact we are about 2-3 miles from CHG so finger crossed !
Oh can someone please clear up for wether there is only one test for places at GS inc Sutton schools for next year, a little confused ?
I know she is intelligent/bright but I am discovering just what kind of level she has to be at. I feel it will be vocabulary which will need most work at the mo ! I really would like her to make GS, and was not aware how good child has to be to get this or an offer of bursury at indie so am just trying to find all this out. We were advised by many not to go too heavy until yr5 so we were a little laid back about it, plus all the positive praise from school, which we thought was a good school and indeed does have a good reputation, but I am discovering that we have alot of ground to gain ! As for transport yes I am aware of all public transport and Green bus, in fact we are about 2-3 miles from CHG so finger crossed !
Oh can someone please clear up for wether there is only one test for places at GS inc Sutton schools for next year, a little confused ?