Passed but turned down place
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Thirdtimer
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- Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:27 pm
- Location: Stroud
Passed but turned down place
I heard the sad story today of someone caught out by the new applications system.
Their son passed by a few points but was told they were 200 and something-th so assumed there was no way he would get a place at local grammar and didn't even bother to list it on their application.
They have subsequently found out that children who scored less have got places.
If only they had read this forum, they would have realised about all the Glos parents listing all the grammars on their 11+ form, but unfortunately they had no idea that other people were doing this.
Feel so sorry for them.
Their son passed by a few points but was told they were 200 and something-th so assumed there was no way he would get a place at local grammar and didn't even bother to list it on their application.
They have subsequently found out that children who scored less have got places.
If only they had read this forum, they would have realised about all the Glos parents listing all the grammars on their 11+ form, but unfortunately they had no idea that other people were doing this.
Feel so sorry for them.
There is no reason why they could not appeal. Parental 'error' is as good a reason as any to appeal, and their son did pass.
The appeal process shouldn't be traumatic at all. In fact, if the school is even slightly undersubscribed, he may get offered a place before the appeals are heard if they tell the school they'd like him to be considered.
The appeal process shouldn't be traumatic at all. In fact, if the school is even slightly undersubscribed, he may get offered a place before the appeals are heard if they tell the school they'd like him to be considered.
Capers
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Thirdtimer
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- Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:27 pm
- Location: Stroud
it's always sad when this sort of thing happens but it seems more than a little odd that these parents are savvy enough to realise that there are grammar schools (not being sarcastic here, for those who live a way away from them and with good comps nearby and maybe who don't have much playground contact with othe parents, because of working, or whatever, it would be easy in some cases to miss the fact that they even exist!) and to get the separate form filled in and into Shire Hall on time and so on but then not to realise that you should always list it, that the LEA just moves down your list and gives you the first available slot where the preference coincides with the eligibility.
I don't want to sound harsh here, but the letters back with results (3 years in now, not that new a system), sure, make clear (even the Pates and Stroud top 120s) that it's not an offer of a place but a statement of eligibility, and that you still have to fill in the CAF. There are 4 slots so most people would gamble the first on the grammar and still have 3 over for the comprehensives. Assumptions should never be made and there is help and info in the booklet provided and at the LEA itself and presumably at the primary school - transition being something which cannot be news to primary heads. It seems very strange just to assume he wouldn't get in and not even bother to list it when there are 4 slots. My DS1 got 227, I think, 2 years ago and all his school friends seemed to be scoring higher which obviously panicked me. I still put STRS down first and just hoped that he had passed by enough (I didn't know about this site back then). I would never have written off his chances by second guessing a system I knew nothing about, particularly, if as it appears from some teeth gnashing going on now, the grammar was very much the school I wanted.
I'm assuming that they will appeal?
I don't want to sound harsh here, but the letters back with results (3 years in now, not that new a system), sure, make clear (even the Pates and Stroud top 120s) that it's not an offer of a place but a statement of eligibility, and that you still have to fill in the CAF. There are 4 slots so most people would gamble the first on the grammar and still have 3 over for the comprehensives. Assumptions should never be made and there is help and info in the booklet provided and at the LEA itself and presumably at the primary school - transition being something which cannot be news to primary heads. It seems very strange just to assume he wouldn't get in and not even bother to list it when there are 4 slots. My DS1 got 227, I think, 2 years ago and all his school friends seemed to be scoring higher which obviously panicked me. I still put STRS down first and just hoped that he had passed by enough (I didn't know about this site back then). I would never have written off his chances by second guessing a system I knew nothing about, particularly, if as it appears from some teeth gnashing going on now, the grammar was very much the school I wanted.
I'm assuming that they will appeal?
Absolutely.Thirdtimer wrote:Can they appeal even if they didn't list the grammar on their application form?
That's partly what appeals panels are for - to take parental errors into account where the official rules can't.
I know of a child who had taken a test, passed but very low down waiting list, so the parents didn't put the school as an option. For various reasons, they decided to appeal the following year, and won the appeal; fairly easy in their case, as the child had passed the test and the school had 'spare' spaces (well, over-subscribed but under the number they were happy to cope with).
Capers
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Thirdtimer
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- Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:27 pm
- Location: Stroud
You would be amazed how many people are still under the illusion that the first preference system is still in place. I have had to put a few people straight on it. So this situation doesn't suprise me in the least. I think all schools should have a meeting where parent are presented with the options and can ask questions to people who know how the system works. I even know of school governors still giving out in-correct info on the system.Milla, I completely agree with you that it seems strange for them not to have put the grammar on the list. They are perfectly intellegent parents who are going through the system for the second time - no idea what happened.
We had a meeting at my DS1's primary school explaining the whole system. Was wonderful, then they dropped the clanger....we don't support ANY children with appeals. In my opinion very unfair. 
Thankfully I am not in that position this year and fingers crossed won't be for DS2. If I had known this before chosing the primary I would have gone elsewhere. I did mention to the head that I was planning on grammar...might have been a good time for them to mention it then, one would think!??
I do hope this DCs parents can get it sorted.
Thankfully I am not in that position this year and fingers crossed won't be for DS2. If I had known this before chosing the primary I would have gone elsewhere. I did mention to the head that I was planning on grammar...might have been a good time for them to mention it then, one would think!??
I do hope this DCs parents can get it sorted.
primary schools and grammar schools
I agree with you that primary schools should give more support.
Primary school Heads and teachers in a selective area (ie Gloucs) should support children and families so that they get the maximum choice of secondary school.
They spend hours on bloomin SATs that noone really cares about apart from for league table s and they certainly do not improve life chances in the future (literacy and numeracy etc do but not SATS).
They help children with special needs, rightly so. They put on school plays and take trips. But will not help children with prep for Grammar School tests - so unfair. Not every one is in or wants to be in teh football team but they still run special practices and have fixtures. So to say that Grammar School tests are not for everyone so muct be for noone leaves back at schools that ban winners at sports day - total ideologhical madness and a primary Head should not be allowed to be a Head in a selective area if they do not help their students get the best out of the system. Soooo annoying. A real cop out. AND who suffers? CHILDREN. Morseover, children from families who cant afford tutors or who do not get the system etc. Grammar is not right for all but all should get the chance and choice. iT IS NOT FAIR AND SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED - TELL YOUR gOVERNORS!
Sorry - rant over.
Primary school Heads and teachers in a selective area (ie Gloucs) should support children and families so that they get the maximum choice of secondary school.
They spend hours on bloomin SATs that noone really cares about apart from for league table s and they certainly do not improve life chances in the future (literacy and numeracy etc do but not SATS).
They help children with special needs, rightly so. They put on school plays and take trips. But will not help children with prep for Grammar School tests - so unfair. Not every one is in or wants to be in teh football team but they still run special practices and have fixtures. So to say that Grammar School tests are not for everyone so muct be for noone leaves back at schools that ban winners at sports day - total ideologhical madness and a primary Head should not be allowed to be a Head in a selective area if they do not help their students get the best out of the system. Soooo annoying. A real cop out. AND who suffers? CHILDREN. Morseover, children from families who cant afford tutors or who do not get the system etc. Grammar is not right for all but all should get the chance and choice. iT IS NOT FAIR AND SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED - TELL YOUR gOVERNORS!
Sorry - rant over.
