PANs and IANs in KS1

Amber · Post by **Amber** » Mon May 24, 2010 10:27 am

I have just read and re-read the definitions of PAN and IAN on another thread and wonder if someone could tell me what exactly the implication of this would be in a primary school. If the IAN were, for example, 28, but the classrooms were of normal size - does it offer any guidance as to whether in reality a school could take up to 30 pupils - that being the upper limit for a KS1 class? Obviously this would have implications for appeals if it were the case.

Sorry to start a new thread for such a very specific question - I saw refs to it in Marsbar's thread but didn't want to come it at the end of all the good news bits with such a dry question.

Twinkle · Post by **Twinkle** » Mon May 24, 2010 12:28 pm

Certainly if there are less than 30 in a class it should be far easier to win an appeal than in the situation where you have 30 in a class ( where in my experience it is almost impossible to win apart from the situation where the criteria have been incorrectly applied - irrespective of size of classroom and availability of resources and strength of case - due to the ICS legislation).

Post by **Etienne** » Mon May 24, 2010 6:40 pm

If the IAN were, for example, 28, but the classrooms were of normal size - does it offer any guidance as to whether in reality a school could take up to 30 pupils

Presumably, if the PAN was fixed at two below IAN, it was done following consultation and all the proper procedures. The discrepancy is something to be explored at stage 1 of an appeal hearing, and I would have thought the panel would want to be satisfied that there's a good reason. If they're not satisfied, they might well take the view that the school could accommodate two more pupils without difficulty.

if there are less than 30 in a class it should be far easier to win an appeal than in the situation where you have 30 in a class

Absolutely - though even with 28, if you have more than 2 appellants, ICS could become an issue.

Amber · Post by **Amber** » Mon May 24, 2010 8:39 pm

Thank you Etienne. Not sure if I am being totally dense but I can't really understand the difference between PAN and IAN here, if IAN is 28. I have a friend who is appealing for a place in a primary school and this might be relevant for her, but she would need to understand the terms before being confident to raise it at the appeal hearing. Could I possibly trouble you to spell out in baby language what the difference is and the implication for someone seeking a place on appeal? Sorry. Thank you.

Post by **Etienne** » Mon May 24, 2010 9:07 pm

Sorry, Amber.

The Indicated Admission Number is derived from the formula they use, but it isn't binding.

The admission authority then decides on the actual Admission Number (PAN), which is usually the same as, or similar to, the IAN, but other factors might be taken into account, and it's up to the authority to consult on the proposed PAN and go through all the proper procedures.

To quote from the other thread:

The number of pupils admitted to a school is based on the net capacity of the school. This is a physical measurement of the facilities that are available. From the net capacity, which equates to the total number of pupils that it is deemed the school can hold, the IAN is derived. The IAN (Indicated Admission Number) is there for guidance, and influences what the actual PAN is. The precise admission number can be modified by agreement, if there is a good reason.

Minesatea · Post by **Minesatea** » Mon May 24, 2010 9:43 pm

It may also be necessary to look at the whole school rather than just the class you are appealing for.

At a local primary to us, IAN is 45. The reception children are taught in two classes of 22 and 23 respectively. It would appear that they could easily take more children. However in the rest of KS1 there is 3 classes of 30 children, 45 of each year 1 and 2. So although extra children could in theory be accomodated in reception, there would be no room for them higher up the school.

Post by **Etienne** » Mon May 24, 2010 9:59 pm

Minesatea makes a good point about 'future prejudice'.

Some schools do try to get infants off to a good start with relatively generous provision in Reception, but then have vertical grouping for years 1 and 2.

Amber · Post by **Amber** » Mon May 24, 2010 10:00 pm

Thank you Etienne and please don't be sorry. It is hot and my brain is jellied.

Thank you Minesatea (mine's a red wine). You make a good point, though in this case I think there are single age classes throughout.

ourmaminhavana · Post by **ourmaminhavana** » Mon May 24, 2010 10:57 pm

Well I really don't see the point of these figures if they're not legally binding. I thought it was a health and safety issue but we've just had a situation where the physical space was completely disregarded and by taking 30 in reception- we usually take 25 but all of the others were allowed on appeal- last year we will now have 36 in each of our ks2 classes!!

Post by **Etienne** » Mon May 24, 2010 11:30 pm

I'm more used on here to complaints about appeals not being upheld ....

36 does sound an awful lot.

No point in anyone having a right of appeal, though, if the admission number can never be breached .......