Indicative pass mark for Watford girls / Parmiters

[Pinkboots]

I am still considering whether or not my daughter should sit the test for Watford Girls and / or Parmiters this November. I know that there isn't a pass mark as such for either school, but I wondered if anyone could suggest what kind of marks you would need to get in the maths & VR papers to have a reasonable chance.

Thank you.

[Watford87]

I am still considering whether or not my daughter should sit the test for Watford Girls and / or Parmiters this November. I know that there isn't a pass mark as such for either school, but I wondered if anyone could suggest what kind of marks you would need to get in the maths & VR papers to have a reasonable chance.

Thank you.

Our private tutor suggested high 80's. We tried to find out from WGSB but not surprisingly they wouldn't tell us. What is clear is that given that only 25% will get in on this criteria (45) for 2008 entry as opposed to 35% for 2007 entry that the passmark will be higher.

[Stig]

It is about 120 on standardised scores. That equates to approximately 90+% in terms of test marks. If your child is older in the year then they will need to do slightly better because of the age weighting (standardisation).

[WP]

It is about 120 on standardised scores. That equates to approximately 90+% in terms of test marks. If your child is older in the year then they will need to do slightly better because of the age weighting (standardisation).

How did you find that out? The schools always seem to refuse to answer such questions. (The girls school seems to be especially tight-lipped.)

But 120 seems about right. About 2300 children sit the SW Herts tests, and until last year 193 (8.4%) of them were admitted to Parmiters or the Grammars based on test score. Allowing for a few high scorers taking up private or out-of-county places, that's approximately a standardized score of 120 (i.e. 1 1/3 standard deviations above the average). With the reduced proportion this year, the number will be 136 (5.9%), which corresponds to a standardized score of 123.

However the standardized score isn't much use, as it's calculated from the actual scores of those taking the SW Herts tests in a given year.

[Stig]

My son's Junior school ran a mock VR test a few weeks before the real thing. The results were then standardised. They also indicated that they felt the required mark for grammars in SW Herts was 120 or above which equated to about 91% for that group of children.

Of course this will vary from year to year.

And with potential changes to admissions criteria to reduce the numbers accepted on test scores this bar will be raised somewhat.

However I think it is a useful benchmark.

Stig

[Guest]

Hi WP,

But 120 seems about right. About 2300 children sit the SW Herts tests, and until last year 193 (8.4%) of them were admitted to Parmiters or the Grammars based on test score. Allowing for a few high scorers taking up private or out-of-county places, that's approximately a standardized score of 120 (i.e. 1 1/3 standard deviations above the average). With the reduced proportion this year, the number will be 136 (5.9%), which corresponds to a standardized score of 123.

However the standardized score isn't much use, as it's calculated from the actual scores of those taking the SW Herts tests in a given year.

"

I just posted about this, then found this thread. Would you mind explaining how these age standardises scores work, for somebody "mathematically challenged"?! What does 1 1/3 standard deviations above the average mean?!?

Thanks.

One worried Mum[/quote]

[WP]

I just posted about this, then found this thread. Would you mind explaining how these age standardises scores work, for somebody "mathematically challenged"?! What does 1 1/3 standard deviations above the average mean?!?

There's a partial explanation of standardization on the NFER website. Younger children will on average score less than older ones, so they adjust the scores, based on the differences observed in the actual test, to compensate for that. Essentially you have to score in the top 8-9% percent of the children born around the same time to get into Parmiter's and the Grammars.

But it doesn't help to know the required standardized score, or the number of standard deviations above the average (another way of saying the same thing). They're just ways of describing what fraction of the test population that will get in, but they don't help with what you really want to know, namely what raw score is required to be in that top fraction. I don't know that, and the schools don't release any data, but some people have guesses.

[oneworriedmum]

Thanks very much for that WP. Very useful.

Do you also know how they allocate across all three of the choices? In other words, if my daughter has Queens first and clever clogs has Parmiters, Grammar, Queens, and they miss Parmiters and Grammar but score higher than my daugher who has put Queens first, will they get the place ahead of her? Or does the fact we've put it first count for anything?

[WP]

Do you also know how they allocate across all three of the choices? In other words, if my daughter has Queens first and clever clogs has Parmiters, Grammar, Queens, and they miss Parmiters and Grammar but score higher than my daugher who has put Queens first, will they get the place ahead of her? Or does the fact we've put it first count for anything?

The schools allocate without knowing your preferences. For example, Queen's are given only the complete list of applicants who listed them anywhere in their preferences. They put these in rank order according to the test. (They will also have separate ranked lists for sport, music and distance.) They forward the top 92 names on that list to County, offering places. County inform them of which of those names have been offered places at schools they ranked higher, and Queen's reallocate that many places, working down the list in rank order. This all happens invisibly before allocation day, though it continues afterwards if some places are turned down (say to go to a private school).

So cc's place at Queen's won't be freed unless he/she gets a place at Parmiter's or the Grammar; you would gain no advantage by putting Queen's first. The only reason to depart from one's true preferences is to include at least one safe fallback.

[oneworriedmum]

Again, super helpful. How did you get so clued up WP? I'm nearly done now... deadline tomorrow! Feeling calmer already.