Passing 11+ after tutoring BUT will struggle at GS (esp SS?)

[DebP]

I have always believed DS will do well at GS and will pass 11+. And like most of you - we did lots of extra tutoring to help him pass the test.

I have heard it said that some children get through to a GS or even a super-selective through being well-tutored but then struggle in the school.
Is this just a rumour put about by some or is it true?
Does any one know real cases?

In my own family I think my son would be fine at GS but wonder if he would struggle at one of the elite schools - but if he passes the exam and could go should I send him?

This dilemma may have been discussed before? I thought I'd ask the ? before we get results next week.

[Chocolatey Mum]

Only you know your child and their ability.

Our case - my DS was tutored and has dyslexia which worried me
in the same way you describle. Would he struggle? Should I put him
through all this just to find he struggles when he's there? Was this the right choice?

Well my fears were unnecessary, as he is doing extremely well - now comfortably in year 10 with his choice of options and even won awards for his efforts/acheivements at GS.

I needn't have worried.

Let's be honest would we help/tutor them if we really
thought they might struggle. Of course we wouldn't.

We know what our DCs are capeble of, and, with our help and
Encouragement they will all reach their potential.

It is a worrying time when we are waiting for results and somany thoughts
Go through our head before results day....

If a child is deemed suitable for a Grammar School on results day or at appeals they are ready for GS.

I'm sure you will not need to worry.

[scarlett]

I would wait and see what happens on results day . You may find he scores extremely well and so deserves his place at Grammar. Is he level 5 and doing well at school / working hard ? These are also indications that he will be fine.

I did wonder this with my DS1 who is now at grammar and doing well...when he can be bothered that is...I'm pleased he is in a disciplined , hard working environment ..he needs that extra nudge.

Don't forget they still have a year to go for those final tweaks , until it's time for secondary !

Regarding the struggling bit at grammar..I've heard that one from well meaning people , about a million times over the last month . I'm keeping a dignified silence at the moment, but it might not last.

[Etienne]

I am a teacher at a grammar school with responsibilities for monitoring pupils. I have access to vrq scores, SATs scores and GCSE/AS/A level exams. I have witnessed several boys win appeals who have gone on to read, for example physics or maths, at Oxbridge.

Out of my own interest, for years 7 and 8, I spend a good deal of time analysing school exam results and comparing them with entry vrqs. Being as professional and confidential as I can I have also made enquiries as to whether pupils were tutored and/or went to private junior schools.

In our school about 80% of pupils were either tutored, went to private junior schools or both.

All I have come up with is not that surprising; it is the best I have. Generally then:

Many pupils who score high vrqs rarely gone on to shine as one might predict. Yes they are good but no better than most.

Those who have not been tutored tend to do better than might be expected based on their vrq

Those who were tutored and have low vrqs tend to struggle.

Those who were tutored and get in on appeal struggle the most.

Those who had no tutoring and get in on appeal tend to do fine.

Please treat all of this with great caution. There are many exceptions! (White Knight)

Note the last sentence - There are many exceptions!

The 11+ is a snapshot at a particular point in time. What happens in later years depends on all sorts of factors!

[DebP]

So I probably shouldn't worry.
Yes my DS went to private school and was tutored (not OTT though)- so if he only just passes then he may struggle but if he gets a good pass mark that is probably an indication that he can cope.

[kingsgen]

So I probably shouldn't worry.
Yes my DS went to private school and was tutored (not OTT though)- so if he only just passes then he may struggle but if he gets a good pass mark that is probably an indication that he can cope.

Please do not deny the young man the opportunity to receive the best secondary education. I know children who attended Grammar schools and were tutored even in Grammar School both GCSE and A Level, One has just finished Russell group universities working in an investment bank immediately he finished. I know another reading medicine at the moment and some other few still in Uni or doing A Level. Grammar schools are gathering of local champions and in some cases such environment bring the best out of them. One of my tutees last year was like your son but as I do not like writing any child off, she eventually passed, got into Townley and she is now doing extremely well according to the mom. In fact, her attitude has changed completely. So please, give him a chance.

[Etienne]

....... so if he only just passes then he may struggle ........

Perhaps - but not necessarily!

While I would heed carefully what White Knight says (not least because he is based in a grammar school, is completely impartial, and has spent some time investigating the matter), I see no reason why your son can't be one of the 'exceptions' in this situation - especially if he's well-motivated and willing to work hard. (Motivation could be a key factor influencing what actually happens after the 11+.)

Another 'variable' is the 11+ result itself. Remember that it's a snapshot on a particular day. It may or may not be a reliable indicator in any particular case. It may or may not be an accurate reflection of your son's ability.

As Chocolatey Mum said above: "Only you know your child". How do you think he will respond to the challenges of grammar school?

Different children respond in different ways. Scarlett's DS1 may not pass my 'motivation test' (if I've understood correctly!), but has clearly benefited from being in a disciplined , hard working setting. I can think of at least one teenage boy who does not react quite so well to this sort of environment .........

[Looking for help]

One of mine only got in because they rounded her aggregate score up which meant she achieved the pass mark.

She has left this year with fantastic A Level results, better than a lot of her friends who achieved huge scores in their 11+s, and also GCSEs.

[neveragain*]

My youngest only just passed 11 plus but ss here in Gloucestershire. However, he had top stanine CAT results and got externally marked level 6 at key stage 2. He is now at GS and doing so well, lots of merits, doing his homework really thoroughly and keen to show teachers he is bright. One test result, as so many have already said, is not necessarily an indicator of success at GS. It is the whole picture! You know your child and the past few years will have indicated to you how they think, how they like to learn. In a county of 7 GS I knew, that although I disagree with selective education, my DC wouldn't be getting a truly "comprehensive" education at a comp, and would thrive in a more ordered and workmanlike atmosphere with more children around their level. This seems to be the case. Give them a chance if they pass, however well, and remember our expectations are half the battle!

[tigger2]

Sorry...but if I don't ask I will never know...what does WhiteKnight mean by vrq scores?