Bucks IAP Appeal
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Bucks IAP Appeal
Hi Etienne
I must admit I have never been more confused...
My daughter was unsuccessful in selection review, however we still wanted to appeal against the decision as she got a VRTS of 118 and a 2:1 recommendation from the head teacher. We also believe that we have extenuating circumstances, as there was an issue with the way the first exam was moderated - to the extent that a formal investigation was undertaken as several children were disrupted during the exam. Our daughter is a sensitive child and even though the overall results from her school this year were very good, we know that she suffered from that first test disruption, even though others may have not
We've received the appeal dates and understand that the first step is that we are appealing against the initial decision, to prove that it was not conducted in a fair and consistent manner. Only if we are successful here, do we move onto to the next stage, where academic circumstances would be investigated in more detail - is this correct?
So, from reading posts on the forum, I understand that the hearing will be between us and the panel, whereby we should be asking for them to effectively justify the basis on which they made their decision - right? We have asked for case notes and have had back some very brief notes to say how a decision was made - but there is very little detail! I'm confused as to how we are supposed to be questioning them, when surely its really about them giving us a full overview as to how our daughters case was concluded? I sense then that the first stage is really about preparing ourselves with a series of questions to make them satisfy us of a fair and consistent process?
There is so much confusing text within the letters we received - that talk of submitting any evidence that we wish to be taken into consideration - 'x' number of working days before the appeal. What evidence is this? They told us over the phone that this first step is only about challenging the initial decision. Should we supply any evidence or not? What do they mean by it? They told me that if we get past the first stage then at this point further academic evidence would be sought....
Ultimately we don't think that from the case notes received, that they can have possibly considered how the problems of the first test affected our daughter.....and we don't know how this was considered overall. Should we focus on questioning them around this aspect primarily? I understand more now from reading some of the posts but I'm pretty worried about going in there unprepared! its very upsetting when you have no idea how much time and effort they have spent on your case.....and indeed not knowing if they act fairly and spend adequate time investigating your particular case!
I hope you can help - our appeal date is in a couple of weeks.
Thanks
S
I must admit I have never been more confused...
My daughter was unsuccessful in selection review, however we still wanted to appeal against the decision as she got a VRTS of 118 and a 2:1 recommendation from the head teacher. We also believe that we have extenuating circumstances, as there was an issue with the way the first exam was moderated - to the extent that a formal investigation was undertaken as several children were disrupted during the exam. Our daughter is a sensitive child and even though the overall results from her school this year were very good, we know that she suffered from that first test disruption, even though others may have not
We've received the appeal dates and understand that the first step is that we are appealing against the initial decision, to prove that it was not conducted in a fair and consistent manner. Only if we are successful here, do we move onto to the next stage, where academic circumstances would be investigated in more detail - is this correct?
So, from reading posts on the forum, I understand that the hearing will be between us and the panel, whereby we should be asking for them to effectively justify the basis on which they made their decision - right? We have asked for case notes and have had back some very brief notes to say how a decision was made - but there is very little detail! I'm confused as to how we are supposed to be questioning them, when surely its really about them giving us a full overview as to how our daughters case was concluded? I sense then that the first stage is really about preparing ourselves with a series of questions to make them satisfy us of a fair and consistent process?
There is so much confusing text within the letters we received - that talk of submitting any evidence that we wish to be taken into consideration - 'x' number of working days before the appeal. What evidence is this? They told us over the phone that this first step is only about challenging the initial decision. Should we supply any evidence or not? What do they mean by it? They told me that if we get past the first stage then at this point further academic evidence would be sought....
Ultimately we don't think that from the case notes received, that they can have possibly considered how the problems of the first test affected our daughter.....and we don't know how this was considered overall. Should we focus on questioning them around this aspect primarily? I understand more now from reading some of the posts but I'm pretty worried about going in there unprepared! its very upsetting when you have no idea how much time and effort they have spent on your case.....and indeed not knowing if they act fairly and spend adequate time investigating your particular case!
I hope you can help - our appeal date is in a couple of weeks.
Thanks
S
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- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
Hi suzy, and welcome!
Etienne is not around at the moment, so I'll try to answer your questions instead.
Some of your questions are answered in this "Sticky" on Bucks: http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... ft#p376217" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not quite. From what we've heard from those who've already been to appeal, both parts of the case ("fair, consistent & objective", and selection) will be heard automatically. It seems that it's at the end of both of those, when the panel take their decisions, that they decide on FCO. If they find that the review process was not FCO, they move on to the case for selection and decide on that.
This is a completely different panel. The Review Panels were made up of serving Head teachers. The Independent Appeal Panel is made up of volunteers from the community, some of whom (non-lay members) have experience of education. Each panel will be made up of both lay and non-lay members.
It is the Presenting Officer who is representing the admission authority, and thus the Review Panel. They must justify the case for FCO, and you and members of the IAP can challengeand question them on it.
This was discussed here: http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... er#p375472" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No - if you have any additional academic evidence, you should submit it as soon as you possibly can. You can take small amounts of evidence, plus school books with you on the day. They definitely won't be proactive in seeking the evidence for you!
I can reassure you that IAP members are invariably kind and welcoming towards parents, and they do understand how stressful an appeal is.
Sally-Anne
Etienne is not around at the moment, so I'll try to answer your questions instead.
Some of your questions are answered in this "Sticky" on Bucks: http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... ft#p376217" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We've received the appeal dates and understand that the first step is that we are appealing against the initial decision, to prove that it was not conducted in a fair and consistent manner. Only if we are successful here, do we move onto to the next stage, where academic circumstances would be investigated in more detail - is this correct?
Not quite. From what we've heard from those who've already been to appeal, both parts of the case ("fair, consistent & objective", and selection) will be heard automatically. It seems that it's at the end of both of those, when the panel take their decisions, that they decide on FCO. If they find that the review process was not FCO, they move on to the case for selection and decide on that.
So, from reading posts on the forum, I understand that the hearing will be between us and the panel, whereby we should be asking for them to effectively justify the basis on which they made their decision - right?
This is a completely different panel. The Review Panels were made up of serving Head teachers. The Independent Appeal Panel is made up of volunteers from the community, some of whom (non-lay members) have experience of education. Each panel will be made up of both lay and non-lay members.
It is the Presenting Officer who is representing the admission authority, and thus the Review Panel. They must justify the case for FCO, and you and members of the IAP can challengeand question them on it.
That is certainly a question that you should put to the Presenting Officer.We have asked for case notes and have had back some very brief notes to say how a decision was made - but there is very little detail! I'm confused as to how we are supposed to be questioning them, when surely its really about them giving us a full overview as to how our daughters case was concluded?
That sounds fine, and it really comes down to the question of "where is the evidence"?I sense then that the first stage is really about preparing ourselves with a series of questions to make them satisfy us of a fair and consistent process?
There is so much confusing text within the letters we received - that talk of submitting any evidence that we wish to be taken into consideration - 'x' number of working days before the appeal. What evidence is this?
They told us over the phone that this first step is only about challenging the initial decision. Should we supply any evidence or not? What do they mean by it?
This was discussed here: http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... er#p375472" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They told me that if we get past the first stage then at this point further academic evidence would be sought....
No - if you have any additional academic evidence, you should submit it as soon as you possibly can. You can take small amounts of evidence, plus school books with you on the day. They definitely won't be proactive in seeking the evidence for you!
You can point this out at the hearing, although the PO will not be able to tell you how long was spent on your case.Ultimately we don't think that from the case notes received, that they can have possibly considered how the problems of the first test affected our daughter.....and we don't know how this was considered overall. Should we focus on questioning them around this aspect primarily? I understand more now from reading some of the posts but I'm pretty worried about going in there unprepared! its very upsetting when you have no idea how much time and effort they have spent on your case.....and indeed not knowing if they act fairly and spend adequate time investigating your particular case!
I can reassure you that IAP members are invariably kind and welcoming towards parents, and they do understand how stressful an appeal is.
Sally-Anne
Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
Thanks Sally-Anne all been very helpful and we have our IAP hearing on Tuesday...
We now have a re recommendation letter from the head teacher to a 1:1 along with a strong letter of support from her teacher with level 5 sats mock results and revised reading age... is this evidence only going to be considered in the event we prove SRP was not FCO?
I am unsure if we need to bring examples of her school work as seen that being mentioned - her teacher has given us examples of her work ?
In the order of business sent out with the case notes after 'questions by appellant and panel' its 'the case for the appellant' does this mean the case as to why our daughter is suitable for grammar school or the case for FCO as there is also a 'summing up by the appellant' after this?
I will be so glad when this is over - do you also know max number of people allowed to represent the appellant?
We now have a re recommendation letter from the head teacher to a 1:1 along with a strong letter of support from her teacher with level 5 sats mock results and revised reading age... is this evidence only going to be considered in the event we prove SRP was not FCO?
I am unsure if we need to bring examples of her school work as seen that being mentioned - her teacher has given us examples of her work ?
In the order of business sent out with the case notes after 'questions by appellant and panel' its 'the case for the appellant' does this mean the case as to why our daughter is suitable for grammar school or the case for FCO as there is also a 'summing up by the appellant' after this?
I will be so glad when this is over - do you also know max number of people allowed to represent the appellant?
-
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
- Hi Suzy
It should be for the admission authority to prove FCO. You present your academic case, but in practice it will only be considered if the panel decide the review was not FCO.We now have a re recommendation letter from the head teacher to a 1:1 along with a strong letter of support from her teacher with level 5 sats mock results and revised reading age... is this evidence only going to be considered in the event we prove SRP was not FCO?
Have you seen the Q&As? http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Scroll down to note 1.)I am unsure if we need to bring examples of her school work as seen that being mentioned - her teacher has given us examples of her work ?
Yes, it does. The case for FCO would be the admission authority's case at the beginning.In the order of business sent out with the case notes after 'questions by appellant and panel' its 'the case for the appellant' does this mean the case as to why our daughter is suitable for grammar school
Do you mean "represent" or "accompany"? As far as I know there specific limit, but if you are planning to take a professional of some sort with you, I think it would be usual to have just - or possibly two if they had different roles to play in the case.I will be so glad when this is over - do you also know max number of people allowed to represent the appellant?
If you mean "accompany", you can of course take someone with you for moral support, but I think there would need to be a good reason why more than one or two extra adults need to attend. Some appeals can end up being heard in quite small rooms.
Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
Hi we had our 1st IAP appeal last week and just heard back that while we got proved SRP was not FCO there was still not sufficient academic evidence to prove her suitability for grammar school - it appears the head teachers report in the selection review was missing vital information about KS1 performance - there were clear instructions in the head teachers manual as to what needed to be included and this is what the presenting officer spent a lot of time discussing
We have a 2nd case in a couple of weeks and confused as to how to enhance the level of academic evidence or information we take into next appeal... her mock SATS are 5b and 5cs are they only looking for 5a's?
She has a revised 1:1 recommendation from head teacher
Reading age just under 2 years above her age
Is it the fact this information not of a high enough standard or do I need to be providing more examples of work or proof of the level of progress being achieved this year alone?
Im glad we proved the FCO element but maybe didn't spend enough time preparing for the academic side of things as was asked what authors she reads etc by one of panel members...
We have a 2nd case in a couple of weeks and confused as to how to enhance the level of academic evidence or information we take into next appeal... her mock SATS are 5b and 5cs are they only looking for 5a's?
She has a revised 1:1 recommendation from head teacher
Reading age just under 2 years above her age
Is it the fact this information not of a high enough standard or do I need to be providing more examples of work or proof of the level of progress being achieved this year alone?
Im glad we proved the FCO element but maybe didn't spend enough time preparing for the academic side of things as was asked what authors she reads etc by one of panel members...
Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
I assume this was during the FCO part of the appeal?it appears the head teachers report in the selection review was missing vital information about KS1 performance - there were clear instructions in the head teachers manual as to what needed to be included and this is what the presenting officer spent a lot of time discussing
The information was clearly requested for reviews, but I wouldn't have thought the average appeal panel would be too fussed about KS1 results. In most cases what really matters is the standard of year 5/6 work.
One would hope not. A borderline 4a/5c might raise questions, and 5b might be seen as 'safer' - but generally speaking a clear level 5 prediction should be perfectly adequate for grammar school. I doubt the majority of pupils at GS joined with 5a's!We have a 2nd case in a couple of weeks and confused as to how to enhance the level of academic evidence or information we take into next appeal... her mock SATS are 5b and 5cs are they only looking for 5a's?
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Is it the fact this information not of a high enough standard or do I need to be providing more examples of work or proof of the level of progress being achieved this year alone?
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b27" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Im glad we proved the FCO element but maybe didn't spend enough time preparing for the academic side of things as was asked what authors she reads etc by one of panel members...
It would be rather difficult to prove that she really has read Milton's 'Paradise Lost' and the complete works of Shakespeare.
On the other hand, "She only reads comics" might not go down too well!
Once the school case became available, then the focus naturally moved on to FCO - but we did warn back on 1st March:
The issue of "Did I do anything wrong" was discussed here:(d)6. • For the moment we think that your focus should be on the issue of qualification (however cruel it may be under this system that you don't yet know whether your case for selection will be taken into account).
• This may be a secondary hurdle, but it could prove to be the major one.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 12&t=31030" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 28#p379428" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Etienne
Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
Thanks Etienne we had printed out all our questions and handed to IAP along with admissions authority representative is this wise?
Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
If you have a lot of questions about FCO, I feel sure the clerk would welcome a copy.
I would suggest asking the panel if they would find it helpful too.
I would suggest asking the panel if they would find it helpful too.
Etienne