schofield and sims mental arithmetic timings

[year4mum]

Hi all , just after a bit of advice !! Currently doing s+ s mental arithmetic books - just coming to end of book 2 - didn't do first 2 , and started on this one as confidence in maths not very high - she is able to do it , just doesn't believe she can !!!!! I just wondered if anyone who uses these books times their children ( for normal tests , not the 10 minute progress tests in it ) and how long you give ? I want to try to work on speed now , as this is her downfall - far more interesting things to look at out the window / on the floor - or just about anywhere else than the book

Thanks in advance

[fatbananas]

I was told it should be 45 mins, roughly.

[year4mum]

Thank you!!Will stop nagging her when she hasn't finished after 15 mins then - oooppps!!!

[fatbananas]

It's hard, isn't it. I remember DS used to take an absolute age doing them, and only got faster once he'd learned more topics/ really got to grips with some topics, because his confidence grew. He had an 'oh, it's that type of question' moment and would just get on with it.

I also think the S&S layout is pretty unappealing - they pack a lot in a small space and DC pick up on that. Plus the language is a bit odd: John has a FIVE. Why can't they just say 5p?!

[year4mum]

Hi , yes , they are slightly odd in how they word things - do like the way they make each section harder though - really helps my dd build up ( slowly !!!) . I use them just to boost her maths work every couple of days , was spending ages searching and printing mental maths papers from internet - and these had bonus of being a lot cheaper than the other 11+ books -( use those too , but not every day !!!)

[Yamin151]

It's hard, isn't it. I remember DS used to take an absolute age doing them, and only got faster once he'd learned more topics/ really got to grips with some topics, because his confidence grew. He had an 'oh, it's that type of question' moment and would just get on with it.

I also think the S&S layout is pretty unappealing - they pack a lot in a small space and DC pick up on that. Plus the language is a bit odd: John has a FIVE. Why can't they just say 5p?!

From what I gather that is sort of the point, wording questions in all kind of different ways to teach DCs about teasing out what question needs answering and in what order. Really upped maths ability here, but agree they look very unappealing!

[fatbananas]

Yes, I can see the point of phrasing things in different ways, and that's why we've used them. But 'a FIVE' is just not good English; you wouldn't hear it in an everyday context and so I see it as very confusing and off-putting for DC.

[guest201]

year 4 mum my DS who is also year four does a bit of S&S book two, he usually does them in between 10 and 15 mins usually making a couple of silly mistakes along the way, lots of people on this forum say this book is too easy but I think it is important to build confidence in year four.

[year4mum]

Thanks Guest - that interesting to know - my dd is in the middle of the top class for maths , if that makes sense , English is much more her "thing" , but she is doing fine , however confidence is really low - she is a perfectionist , so gets stressed if doesn't think can do something , so we decided like you , that book 2 the best place to start to build her confidence . Ironically , I set her one this morning , but didn't set time for her , and she finished it in 15 mins - got 80% so few wrong , but I know these are( mostly) ones that she hasn't covered. Think will carry on not timing , then once finished next couple of books , buy them again and do them as timed exercises !

We have CEM 11+ here , so timing will be her issue - she is the one that has decided she wants GS place as her friends are all talking about it , but I'm not pushing it too much , so just doing bits that will help her general school work and see how get on.

[Yamin151]

Thanks Guest - that interesting to know - my dd is in the middle of the top class for maths , if that makes sense , English is much more her "thing" , but she is doing fine , however confidence is really low - she is a perfectionist , so gets stressed if doesn't think can do something , so we decided like you , that book 2 the best place to start to build her confidence . Ironically , I set her one this morning , but didn't set time for her , and she finished it in 15 mins - got 80% so few wrong , but I know these are( mostly) ones that she hasn't covered. Think will carry on not timing , then once finished next couple of books , buy them again and do them as timed exercises !

We have CEM 11+ here , so timing will be her issue - she is the one that has decided she wants GS place as her friends are all talking about it , but I'm not pushing it too much , so just doing bits that will help her general school work and see how get on.

Our school takes the view that they should be getting some wrong or it is not challenging enough. One of mine is both a perfectionist and very low in confidence too (long story), so what we do now is work through them together, with him doing each question but with my guidance. This way he gets the learning of tackling something he hasn't done before, or that is more challenging, the new found confidence from being able to work it through, but without the knock to self esteem from not being able to do it.