Grammar schools, low income families, widening social gap

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sky111
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:17 pm

Grammar schools, low income families, widening social gap

Post by sky111 »

There are a few threads regarding grammar Schools and FSM but, more emphasis
has to be placed on the widening social gap as a direct result of dominance of
grammar schools from middle to high income families.

The independent article
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educa ... 49702.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

describes grammer schools as 'stuffed full of middle class kids'.

There can be many debates about the direction that grammar schools need to take to address this but, linking places with FSM, while a step in the right direction, does not go far enough.

Ultimately every grammar school place has to be linked with family income with certain restrictions applied.

1. Extend the current limited places designated for children on FSM to children whose parents are on working tax credit (to be replaced by Universal Credit) so that eventually every grammer school place is linked with family income.

2. Prohibit children currently attending private independent schools applying for grammar school places.

3. Limit maximum 2 siblings obtaining grammar school places.

4. Regardless of how heavily tutored children are, ultimately places will go to lower income families, probably with lower qualifying scores - going back to the ethos of why grammar school were established in the first place. Eventually the growing 11+ business that has developed would be scaled back as, its target group of middle to higher income parents will not gain an unfair advantage to propel their son/daughter to grammar school.
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: Grammar schools, low income families, widening social ga

Post by mystery »

It might be easier to scrap grammar schools.

The research is a little strange. They found a £1.31 per hour average difference in pay between top earners in grammar areas and top earners in comprehensive areas. Couldn't this mostly be to do with the geographical areas in which most grammars are? The bottom earning differential was interesting though. It needs some more research as to why that is. Gut feeling tells me it is some confounding factor and nothing to do with the school systems.
Minesatea
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:08 am

Re: Grammar schools, low income families, widening social ga

Post by Minesatea »

I am not aware of any evidence that middle class families are likely to have more children than poorer famililes, so why are you wanting to discriminate against the younger siblings of poor families by not allowing them grammar school access?
WindowGlass
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:59 pm
Location: West Midlands

Re: Grammar schools, low income families, widening social ga

Post by WindowGlass »

Recent news talks about eradicating poverty rather than inequality.
What matters is equalising opportunity, and that might means positive discrimination at a very early age to enable the opportunity to compete equally by time of 11+.

Additionally, later opportunities post-11+.
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: Grammar schools, low income families, widening social ga

Post by mystery »

Our school does this. It provides a poor education to all so children from all income brackets fail the 11 plus. :wink:
neveragain*
Posts: 580
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:05 am

Re: Grammar schools, low income families, widening social ga

Post by neveragain* »

My DS GS class seems to reflect a true range of the area in which it resides. Out of 30 boys in the class, there are 5 from indies, ranging from an extremely prestigious one to local indies, there are a few very middle class families, there are 4 boys on FSM and a huge range in between. The cultural / ethnic mix is fully reflected too. My DD GS was nearly all 4x4 range rovers etc, whereas at my sons GS our battered old golf sits happily between BMW and Ka's.

I would rather there were no GS, but in my area we have 7. So, I'm glad the one we chose for my youngest is walking distance and pretty reflective of his community. We've been lucky. :D
southbucks3
Posts: 3579
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:59 am

Re: Grammar schools, low income families, widening social ga

Post by southbucks3 »

Out of 30 boys in the class, there are 5 from indies,
Do 1/6th of the children in the local area go to independent prinary schools?
neveragain*
Posts: 580
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:05 am

Re: Grammar schools, low income families, widening social ga

Post by neveragain* »

southbucks3 wrote:
Out of 30 boys in the class, there are 5 from indies,
Do 1/6th of the children in the local area go to independent prinary schools?

Fair point, SB's but sadly within the county, probably so, although not within catchment, you are right, ( hangs head) :oops:
southbucks3
Posts: 3579
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:59 am

Re: Grammar schools, low income families, widening social ga

Post by southbucks3 »

Now I feel snotty....lift your head up again!

Realistically to be able to afford private primary school, some of the parents will be in well paid jobs near the top of their profession, so fairly intelligent, hence genetic intelligence is passed on, hence a higher representation at gs. Not suggesting this is true in all cases of course, and border line children will almost definitely get a push in the right direction from a prep school, but maybe not from a state school.
pheasantchick
Posts: 2439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:28 pm

Re: Grammar schools, low income families, widening social ga

Post by pheasantchick »

I think an element of postcode lottery comes into play. Parents like to send their children to good grammar schools, or good comprehensives in non- Gs areas, so house prices get inflated in these areas, so only the wealthy can afford them, and these tend to be the more intelligent people ( sorry to generalise ). Having catchment areas inflates this problem.

So, ironically, grammar schools could be deemed as more open to all, as they often have none or a wider catchment, so are open to all children, not just those who's parents can afford the in-catchment houses.
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