Medicine- still a good career option?
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Medicine- still a good career option?
I imagine that Medicine is a popular career choice amongst grammar school children. I am now wondering whether my trainee medic DC has made the right choice.
I find it hard to understand why the government spends £250 000 per junior doctor training them in UK medical schools to then try to drive them from the profession in England, at least, and then import many more doctors from countries who can ill afford to lose them and where the calibre of student and training may well be lower.
I did think the contrast between the photographs of striking junior doctors in the 1970s and now was interesting. Back then the picket lines were nearly all white (middle class??) males. Do you think the huge increase in women and ethnic minorities in the profession has emboldened Jeremy Hunt in his appalling treatment of the junior doctors? Controversial perhaps, but I did wonder whether he would treat people he identified more strongly with like this.
Has it put any of your offspring off going into Medicine?
In the meantime, please consider signing this UK parliament petition to force a debate re Jeremy Hunt (hope this link is okay mods)
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/121152" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I find it hard to understand why the government spends £250 000 per junior doctor training them in UK medical schools to then try to drive them from the profession in England, at least, and then import many more doctors from countries who can ill afford to lose them and where the calibre of student and training may well be lower.
I did think the contrast between the photographs of striking junior doctors in the 1970s and now was interesting. Back then the picket lines were nearly all white (middle class??) males. Do you think the huge increase in women and ethnic minorities in the profession has emboldened Jeremy Hunt in his appalling treatment of the junior doctors? Controversial perhaps, but I did wonder whether he would treat people he identified more strongly with like this.
Has it put any of your offspring off going into Medicine?
In the meantime, please consider signing this UK parliament petition to force a debate re Jeremy Hunt (hope this link is okay mods)
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/121152" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Medicine- still a good career option?
I think you are unlikely to find many doctors advising anyone to go into medicine at the moment.
I think there are several things that have led to it being de-professionalised in a way. One is the increase in women in the profession. Like SALT, physio etc professions that are female-heavy tend to become under-valued over time.
I am a GP and have seen my own income plummet but, more importantly than that, I see that I cannot cope in this job for much longer. I give a great service and yet am constantly under pressure to see more patients, see them quicker, deal with more results, deal with huge amounts of crap coming out of hospitals... It's not the job it was. Patients are increasingly demanding (though sadly, rarely the actually ill ones) and they are more angry than they used to be. They feel that googling things gives them as much insight as 6 years as medical school, 4 further years of training and 15 years in the profession. They feel angry if they are charged for things which are not NHS jobs - and yet moan when there isn't enough money to give them the treatment they want.
The NHS cannot survive like this and this government has no wish for it to do so. I don't know any GPs who think there will be an NHS left in 5 years. People say they trust doctors the most and journalists/politicians the least but they don't seem to be listening to thousands and thousands of doctors, nurses and other HCPs telling the truth about the deliberate under-funding of the NHS.
I think there are several things that have led to it being de-professionalised in a way. One is the increase in women in the profession. Like SALT, physio etc professions that are female-heavy tend to become under-valued over time.
I am a GP and have seen my own income plummet but, more importantly than that, I see that I cannot cope in this job for much longer. I give a great service and yet am constantly under pressure to see more patients, see them quicker, deal with more results, deal with huge amounts of crap coming out of hospitals... It's not the job it was. Patients are increasingly demanding (though sadly, rarely the actually ill ones) and they are more angry than they used to be. They feel that googling things gives them as much insight as 6 years as medical school, 4 further years of training and 15 years in the profession. They feel angry if they are charged for things which are not NHS jobs - and yet moan when there isn't enough money to give them the treatment they want.
The NHS cannot survive like this and this government has no wish for it to do so. I don't know any GPs who think there will be an NHS left in 5 years. People say they trust doctors the most and journalists/politicians the least but they don't seem to be listening to thousands and thousands of doctors, nurses and other HCPs telling the truth about the deliberate under-funding of the NHS.
Re: Medicine- still a good career option?
DD has no intentions of going into medicine, despite being good at sciences. I have absolutely no intention of trying to change her mind.
I jokingly told her, a few months ago now, that I didn't mind what degree she does if she decides to go to uni, with the exception of two. Both begin with M.
(Ps If she really really wanted to then I'd be fine about it, as I'd then know it was something she was really committed to doing. Unfortunately I've seen too many parents at careers fairs to believe that every child gets a free choice and too many are strongly 'encouraged' to go into certain careers. Medicine being one of them.)
I jokingly told her, a few months ago now, that I didn't mind what degree she does if she decides to go to uni, with the exception of two. Both begin with M.
(Ps If she really really wanted to then I'd be fine about it, as I'd then know it was something she was really committed to doing. Unfortunately I've seen too many parents at careers fairs to believe that every child gets a free choice and too many are strongly 'encouraged' to go into certain careers. Medicine being one of them.)
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hermanmunster
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Re: Medicine- still a good career option?
^^ I agree with Loobylou
Re: Medicine- still a good career option?
loobylou, such contrasting responses to your two posts today. DS1 is so keen to be a GP and my heart sinks when I read posts such as yours and articles in the press about the NHS. I despair that any process that is as attritional as the one currently 'negotiating' junior doctor contracts will result in any satisfactory conclusion. I have nowhere near enough knowledge to comment on how the NHS should operate more effectively but it does seem that the whole service should be de-politicised in some way. It seems increasingly ridiculous that something so critical to our sense of nationhood and our physical/mental well-being should be subjected to individual ideologies.
Re: Medicine- still a good career option?
I know. And the truth is that we need doctors and we need them to be people dedicated to the profession and to caring for patients. I just can't hand on heart advise anyone to do it at the moment. I don't think we know enough about how things will be in 5 or 10 years.
Bear in mind though that, having just sold our house in order to move out of London, as a GP working 36+ hours a week with a husband working p/t as a teacher, we were unable to secure a 5 figure mortgage (I repeat. 5 figure) this week. Why would the most intelligent educated people in the country choose to work like this? (Answer: because we care. But beginning to care less I fear
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Bear in mind though that, having just sold our house in order to move out of London, as a GP working 36+ hours a week with a husband working p/t as a teacher, we were unable to secure a 5 figure mortgage (I repeat. 5 figure) this week. Why would the most intelligent educated people in the country choose to work like this? (Answer: because we care. But beginning to care less I fear
)Re: Medicine- still a good career option?
I am a medically retired dentist and I would not advise a child of mine near either medicine or dentistry. I am now studying counselling and psychotherapy and find it interesting that integral to the profession is a need for high levels of self awareness, self care and regular support in the form of supervision from more experienced therapist. My experience of NHS dentistry was very different to this and ultimately the stress and lack of support working in an extremely stressful working environment took its toll.
For me the botton line is if we want health professionals to be able to care well for others then they need to be motivated and able to look after themselves well and that means being able to work at a reasonable pace and not be constantly stressed. I really wonder at the impact on the mental and physical health implications for this generation of doctors and dentists. The only way I could recover was by leaving my job and it has taken me almost 2 years to recover from the depression I had sunk into.
For me the botton line is if we want health professionals to be able to care well for others then they need to be motivated and able to look after themselves well and that means being able to work at a reasonable pace and not be constantly stressed. I really wonder at the impact on the mental and physical health implications for this generation of doctors and dentists. The only way I could recover was by leaving my job and it has taken me almost 2 years to recover from the depression I had sunk into.
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DIY Mum
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Re: Medicine- still a good career option?
I wouldn't want to deter my dc from entering into any profession that they really wanted to pursue, be it medicine or not. And tbh, I don't think dps in this day and age, can 'encourage' them to follow it either. The youngsters today have to go through a much more grilling experience if they want to be a medic , than applicants 20 years ago. There are many hurdles: grades , aptitude tests and if that's not enough , the extensive medical work experience required prior to application should put them off!
I have 3 dc who wouldn't dream on embarking on medicine and 2 dc who have their heart set on it. Given the crisis of the nhs, medics and teachers have advised them accordingly. But ds1, who has thought long and worked hard for it is quite excited to attend his chosen med school in Sep (provided he meets the A*AA requirement)! As for Dd1 who is currently in y11, she is still quite young. She has some real medical work experience arranged in June and also in the summer. So who knows? She may feel different after that.
I have 3 dc who wouldn't dream on embarking on medicine and 2 dc who have their heart set on it. Given the crisis of the nhs, medics and teachers have advised them accordingly. But ds1, who has thought long and worked hard for it is quite excited to attend his chosen med school in Sep (provided he meets the A*AA requirement)! As for Dd1 who is currently in y11, she is still quite young. She has some real medical work experience arranged in June and also in the summer. So who knows? She may feel different after that.
Re: Medicine- still a good career option?
Agree. Not up to us to discourage. We should be raising dcs who can think for themselves and if they are bright enough for medicine, they are bright enough to decide for themselves. If a dc is keen enough to study for medicine, why on earth would anyone discourage them if they have chosen it in the full view of a parent or relative doing the same job? They are the sort of people we need as medics!
And just because it can be a pretty grim job at the moment (though I know many who love it and have built a career they are very happy with) - doesn't mean that it won't change in the coming years and swing around to being a job everyone wants to do again. Its not fair to put your own feelings onto the different individual that is your child and try and stop them pursuing a career they may love more than you/Uncle Bob/man next door/woman next door ever did!
And just because it can be a pretty grim job at the moment (though I know many who love it and have built a career they are very happy with) - doesn't mean that it won't change in the coming years and swing around to being a job everyone wants to do again. Its not fair to put your own feelings onto the different individual that is your child and try and stop them pursuing a career they may love more than you/Uncle Bob/man next door/woman next door ever did!
Re: Medicine- still a good career option?
There's a difference though between "advising" and not discouraging.
If someone has their heart set on it then, if they decide to continue despite knowing the difficulties, good luck to them and I hope they do well. We definitely need committed passionate medical students and doctors for the future... And there are definitely specialties that have coped better with the NHS changes than others.
But advising someone to do medicine is a different thing.
Of my trainees (I have had 6 in the last 2 years) only 3 have decided to continue in medicine in the UK. And of the 3 that haven't, 2 of them are probably the best young doctors that I have had the privilege of working with - ever. They went into medicine with passion and a genuine desire to be a doctor and to help people but that's all gone after less than 2 years in the job. I spent hours with them, advising them that things might improve, that there might be a future for them... but they can't see it (and if I'm honest nor can I).
If someone has their heart set on it then, if they decide to continue despite knowing the difficulties, good luck to them and I hope they do well. We definitely need committed passionate medical students and doctors for the future... And there are definitely specialties that have coped better with the NHS changes than others.
But advising someone to do medicine is a different thing.
Of my trainees (I have had 6 in the last 2 years) only 3 have decided to continue in medicine in the UK. And of the 3 that haven't, 2 of them are probably the best young doctors that I have had the privilege of working with - ever. They went into medicine with passion and a genuine desire to be a doctor and to help people but that's all gone after less than 2 years in the job. I spent hours with them, advising them that things might improve, that there might be a future for them... but they can't see it (and if I'm honest nor can I).
