Independent school query

Independent Schools as an alternative to Grammar

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kanye
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:14 pm

Independent school query

Post by kanye »

Hello,

On looking closely at the website of an independent school we are considering in the next few years, it states it would like to move to an aim of "a fully needs-blind admissions process where any bright child can attend the School regardless of their financial situation."

I am just wondering what this might mean - having enough bursaries to not have to turn down bright applicants who otherwise could not afford to attend, or the actual school moving from an independent to becoming state sector provision.

Any views would be useful.
mad?
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Location: london

Re: Independent school query

Post by mad? »

It means the former, being able to admit anyone irrespective of ability to pay through a full bursary programme. However, be warned, there is a HUGE difference between what schools and parents consider to be 'able to pay'. Most schools in my experience will expect both parents to be doing everything they can to work full time and property equity, holidays, spare rooms etc to be given up before bursarial support will be considered. Which, given that many parents will be funding the bursary scheme whilst doing the above to pay their DCs fees seems fair enough really. Good luck.
mad?
Warks mum
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Re: Independent school query

Post by Warks mum »

'Need blind' is a term used in the US university world. In the case of the university, it means they go through the whole application process without knowing anything about the applicant's income. Offers are made purely on the basis of 'best fit' for the university. For 'need blind' universities this also means 'highly selective' as only 5 such institutions do this now for international students and they include Harvard, Yale and MIT.

The university then commits to giving financial aid to the students they select, allowing them to study for the full undergraduate degree, including food, accommodation, allowance for books, etc. However, the universities concerned have a very detailed means testing process for the student's parents and - as Mad? says - what the parent believes is 'affordable' may be rather different from the universities expectations!

Nevertheless, I think it's a great system as it really allows those with no funds or limited means to get a great university education, which at $65,000+ per year would be well out of reach for many!

I guess the school equivalent would be that the offers would be made to the children they think would thrive best at the school and then parents are asked to complete a bursary application. Presumably the school hopes to meet all the resulting 'need' in the same way as the US universities do. This requires very substantial reserves behind the scenes!
hermanmunster
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Re: Independent school query

Post by hermanmunster »

I was just thinking about the financial reserves side of things - the US unis who genuinely do do it have enormous financial reserves, far greater than most schools could manage.

Even then places at US unis still cost a fair bit even with the bursary and some also expect the student to work (on campus owing to visa restrictions) and the earnings are factored in to the calculations.


I agree that many parents having been through the means testing process (for independent schools) will still feel that the sum they have to pay is too high for comfort
kanye
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:14 pm

Re: Independent school query

Post by kanye »

Thank you for explaining. It is quite fascinating to hear about what it means.
ConcernedDad
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: Independent school query

Post by ConcernedDad »

It is a step in the right direction.

While there is likely to be a gap between expectations of the School and parents, this scheme can still help in a big way.
Amber
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Re: Independent school query

Post by Amber »

Isn't it basically getting the richer parents to cover the costs for those who can't afford the fees?

Hey wait :idea: : we could get a national system going like this. We could charge people for schooling and those who hadn't got any money wouldn't have to pay.

We could call it 'state education'.
scary mum
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Re: Independent school query

Post by scary mum »

Amber wrote:Isn't it basically getting the richer parents to cover the costs for those who can't afford the fees?

Hey wait :idea: : we could get a national system going like this. We could charge people for schooling and those who hadn't got any money wouldn't have to pay.

We could call it 'state education'.
:idea: :D
scary mum
enigma
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Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:01 pm

Re: Independent school query

Post by enigma »

Amber wrote:Isn't it basically getting the richer parents to cover the costs for those who can't afford the fees?

Hey wait :idea: : we could get a national system going like this. We could charge people for schooling and those who hadn't got any money wouldn't have to pay.

We could call it 'state education'.
THIS IS A WRONG NOTION about the sources of bursary funds. The source isn't necessarily from the pockets of paying parents who themselves are also feeling the pinch of paying the high cost of private education. Though this is probably the case at some struggling private schools, many top independent schools got their bursary funds not from paying parents but from donations of rich and successful alumni, clubs and businesses. Some wealthy alumni who used to be government scholars are also looking back at who they were by helping bright children to get independent education through bursary fund. I know one top independent school with list of individuals and parties who are regular contributors to their bursary fund (not parents) and one of its alumni donated a whooping £1 million in just one go. The assumption that paying parents are the one paying for the bursary children may result to such parents looking down on bursary children or may even think about unfairness of the system specially those who are both parents working and also struggling to make ends met.
Image "A computer would deserve to be called intelligent if it could deceive a human into believing that it was human."
- Alan Turing
mad?
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Location: london

Re: Independent school query

Post by mad? »

enigma wrote:
Amber wrote:Isn't it basically getting the richer parents to cover the costs for those who can't afford the fees?

Hey wait :idea: : we could get a national system going like this. We could charge people for schooling and those who hadn't got any money wouldn't have to pay.

We could call it 'state education'.
THIS IS A WRONG NOTION .
No, it's not.

You are correct that the most substantial funds come from fundraising endowments, largely past parents and alumni, however, in my experience in most indies a percentage of current parents' fees also goes into the bursary pot (2 to 17% that I know of). These are not failing schools, they are some of the most selective London indies who are keen to get as near as possible to needs blind.
enigma wrote: The assumption that paying parents are the one paying for the bursary children may result to such parents looking down on bursary children or may even think about unfairness of the system specially those who are both parents working and also struggling to make ends met.
That is not what has happened in my experience, other children and their parents are not aware of the level of bursarial support their friends receive. Most paying parents are too busy trying to make ends meet to worry about other people's bursaries. Yes, I'm sure I'd be frustrated if I discovered someone receiving bursarial support who did not at least try to work, or had a spare room they didn't rent out etc, but this is what home visits are for and it is a road to madness for me to waste time trying to second guess how people choose to live their lives and pay for them. Most parents have far better things to do. But let's not pretend that the system is any different from what it is, the most advantaged paying (rightly IMO) for the less so, as Amber says, State Education :D
mad?
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