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gloucestermum · Post by **gloucestermum** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:25 am

Just posted an answer to your other post on the verbal reasoning board!!
Myself,Burneth and AJ11's sons have all just got places at Crypt,Proud mums' DD has a place at Pates so you are in the right place!
We used a tutor but others here did home tutor-I know we did the NFER papers last just before the actual test.Hopefully they will be along with advice before long,
GM

mum3 · Post by **mum3** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:37 am

Pates use the NFER NELSON papers. You can buy them in W H Smith, verbal reasoning only, but there are only 4 so it is best to keep them until nearer the actual test and practise verbal reasoning with other books before then. I 'tutored' my children at home and found the best way was to practise what they couldn't do and then practise doing timed tests. Once they have mastered the various techniques it is a case of getting them to write speedily and not to waste time on questions they can't do, just go on to the next one, that sort of thing. You need to have a fine line between 'encouraging' them but not making them feel like a failure if they don't pass!! Not easy but an awful lot of people do have tutors so it is not a fair playing field. That said, I know children who were professionally tutored and who didnt pass. I think the key is once they can do all the types of questions, is the speed and accuracy of the answers. I have three children, two passed for Pates and one for the Gloucester grammar school. Historically, Pates is the hardest to get into. The 'pass mark' is standardised (hence no correllation between number of questions and results....its a very complicated procedure, trawl through the posts on his website and someone explains it!!!). However, to get a place at Pates, in my personal opinion, you need to be looking at getting 95% + on the NFER Nelson practice papers, but this will take time to get up to this level so don't panic. I think it is slightly less to get into the Gloucester grammar schools. See all the various previous posts. Good luck.

mum3 · Post by **mum3** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:38 am

PS Sorry should have said ALL the Gloucestershire Grammar schools use the NFER Nelson tests (it used to be different..).

Glos_Mum · Post by **Glos_Mum** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:09 pm

AJ11 · Post by **AJ11** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:10 pm

Hi Glos mum and welcome to the forum. I wish I had known about this site earlier, only found it day after son sat the 11+. The advice and help on here is second to none and I for one would not have got through the waiting process without it.

My ds did have a tutor, main reason being I have two much younger children and for him to get some quiet time to work his way through the papers was quite difficult. To be honest I don't think she did anything different than could have been done at home apart from asessing him at the start. She was adamant she would not be prepared to tutor him if he was not grammar school material as it would be unfair to him. I was glad of this honesty as the school he attends does not support the 11+ and therefore will not advise one way or the other. Each week she would give him a paper to do, at first un-timed and eventually under timed conditions. He was scoring between 90 and 100% in each test but the reality of the actual test was a big shock to him. He came out saying it was harder than expected and some of the questions he had never seen before. We were not overly confident he would pass but he did thankfully with a standardised score of 113.5 (October birthday).

I must admit some of the questions do need some thinking about and I feel having a tutor helped him to understand how to go about working them out in a simpler way than maybe I would have done (hope this makes sense.)

Good luck, it sounds like your ds is doing just fine already and he still has plenty of time before the actual test. Practice, practice and more practice that seems to be the winning formula (don't forget fun too!!), with a parent like you by his side he will achieve.

Glos_Mum · Post by **Glos_Mum** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:27 pm

gloucestermum · Post by **gloucestermum** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:35 pm

You can get the NFER papers at a discount on this site.
Orson may be along soon to give you his take on the type of marks necessary to get a place at Pates-it has always been the hardest school to get into and yes the mark will need to be higher than a Gloucester school.However the grammar schools are planning to standardised together this year for the 1st time so how that will affect it goodness knows.
My DS was also scoring approx 85-95% in the practice papers,but on the day didn't achieve anywhere near that although did get a place.

Glos_Mum · Post by **Glos_Mum** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:43 pm

mum3 · Post by **mum3** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:03 pm

Would also add that when my youngest took the test, he also found it much harder than when he had been practising and scared me to death about 'guessing lots' etc. However, he did get a place at Pates so I think that if they find it hard, everyone else does as well, if you see what I mean! Quite a mixture at Pates of sporty/non-sporty/nerdy, I wouldn't really say there was a particular 'type'. Would say the girls tend to be keener and more hard working than the boys as a whole....but there are quite a few 'nerdy' boys as well. Other son also went there, he was quite sporty (def not in the 'nerdy' camp) but present son isn't as keen as him, but really enjoys it there, as did first son. Sorry, this doesnt make sense but what I am really trying to say is there is a mixture of children there and majority seem to be very happy, most types will fit in there.