In case appeal is turned down - secondary school?
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In case appeal is turned down - secondary school?
Hi,
My son secured 334 but like most other DS lost by a mark in English. HT in my council didn't appeal as he was not clear what to do (which is bit strange response but that what was the response i got ). Now the next step that i understand is put the 3 grammars schools in application and appeal for each.
In case the appeal is turned down for all three schools, i assume council must allocate a place in secondary school but then what happens if there are no secondary schools or all oversubscribed near to where i live?
To give an example in TBW, on the application if list following 3 grammar schools
1)Tunbridge Wells Grammar School for Boys
2)The Skinners’ School
3)I mean The Judd school not Tonbridge as it is girls school
In case the appeal is not successful, would council put my DS in "Skinners’ Kent Academy", which is the only state school of no faith? Or they may put in a state school even if that is miles and miles away... Any thoughts or comment on this please?
My son secured 334 but like most other DS lost by a mark in English. HT in my council didn't appeal as he was not clear what to do (which is bit strange response but that what was the response i got ). Now the next step that i understand is put the 3 grammars schools in application and appeal for each.
In case the appeal is turned down for all three schools, i assume council must allocate a place in secondary school but then what happens if there are no secondary schools or all oversubscribed near to where i live?
To give an example in TBW, on the application if list following 3 grammar schools
1)Tunbridge Wells Grammar School for Boys
2)The Skinners’ School
3)I mean The Judd school not Tonbridge as it is girls school
In case the appeal is not successful, would council put my DS in "Skinners’ Kent Academy", which is the only state school of no faith? Or they may put in a state school even if that is miles and miles away... Any thoughts or comment on this please?
Last edited by Sri_mv on Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: In case appeal is turned down - secondary school?
Welcome! 
Preferences are discussed here:
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/schoo ... nce-system" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wherever possible it is wise to name at least one school that would be an acceptable “last resort” (and which you would stand a good chance of getting into under its admission rules).
If none of your preferences can be met, your LA will allocate you a place at the nearest school with a vacancy (even if it is miles away).In case the appeal is turned down for all three schools, i assume council must allocate a place in secondary school but then what happens if there are no secondary schools or all oversubscribed near to where i live?
Preferences are discussed here:
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/schoo ... nce-system" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wherever possible it is wise to name at least one school that would be an acceptable “last resort” (and which you would stand a good chance of getting into under its admission rules).
Etienne
Re: In case appeal is turned down - secondary school?
If you use up three of your four places on schools for which you know already that your DS doesn't qualify, you won't automatically get a place at the fourth school you list - you will only get a place there if your DS is ranked highly enough by that school.Sri_mv wrote:Hi,
My son secured 334 but like most other DS lost by a mark in English. HT in my council didn't appeal as he was not clear what to do (which is bit strange response but that what was the response i got ). Now the next step that i understand is put the 3 grammars schools in application and appeal for each.
In case the appeal is turned down for all three schools, i assume council must allocate a place in secondary school but then what happens if there are no secondary schools or all oversubscribed near to where i live?
To give an example in TBW, on the application if list following 3 grammar schools
1)Tunbridge Wells Grammar School for Boys
2)The Skinners’ School
3)Tonbridge Grammar School
In case the appeal is not successful, would council put my DS in "Skinners’ Kent Academy", which is the only state school of no faith? Or they may put in a state school even if that is miles and miles away... Any thoughts or comment on this please?
If you can't be offered a place there, either, you will be allocated your nearest undersubscribed school, even if there may be other schools which you would have qualified for and which may have been acceptable to you - had you listed them on your CAF - in between.
Tbh, it is a very risky strategy that you are contemplating, unless you can be absolutely sure of a place at the one and only non-grammar school that you list.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
Re: In case appeal is turned down - secondary school?
334 is a good pass for a grammar school in Kent but if you look at all of the other threads on Kent that discuss super selective scores then you will see that this is a long way short of what you would need to be offered a place at Skinners. I hate to be blunt but I think you would be wasting your time listing Skinners on the CAF, or any of the other super selectives. It would also be a waste to list TWSBG unless you move within catchment. You state elsewhere that you are planning to move to Dartford in November from Beds. I'm not surprised a head teacher in Beds is unfamiliar with Headteacher Appeals process for Kent!
If you apply to a grammar school in Kent your son will not be offered a place because he did not get a minimum of 106 on all 3 papers. He was not assessed as suitable for grammar. Naming a grammar on the CAF will allow you to appeal for that school. You have a good chance of winning an appeal since he missed 1 paper by 1 mark but you may win your appeal only to find that the school is oversubscribed or others appeal, win and get the place(s) because they live closer to the school than you.
If you are going to move to Kent do your research. Be clear of the date you have to be in by and the proof you will need to supply to the council of residency. Be clear where you are going to live and the nearby schools that your son would be eligible for. Rank the schools in order of your true preference on the CAF and make sure you choose at least one school that you and your son are happy with, that has an easy ish journey, that you are sure you would be offered a place at.
If you apply to a grammar school in Kent your son will not be offered a place because he did not get a minimum of 106 on all 3 papers. He was not assessed as suitable for grammar. Naming a grammar on the CAF will allow you to appeal for that school. You have a good chance of winning an appeal since he missed 1 paper by 1 mark but you may win your appeal only to find that the school is oversubscribed or others appeal, win and get the place(s) because they live closer to the school than you.
If you are going to move to Kent do your research. Be clear of the date you have to be in by and the proof you will need to supply to the council of residency. Be clear where you are going to live and the nearby schools that your son would be eligible for. Rank the schools in order of your true preference on the CAF and make sure you choose at least one school that you and your son are happy with, that has an easy ish journey, that you are sure you would be offered a place at.
Re: In case appeal is turned down - secondary school?
Yes, i initially thought to move to Dartford but then realized TWB area is better commute to my workplace than Dartford, also there are more grammar school in this area. Hence start to explore about grammar schools in TWB. Speaking with council i was told if can have tenancy agreed signed before early Dec, the school would consider me under catchment. So, what i'm thinking to move as close as possible to "TWSBG".Oblique wrote:334 is a good pass for a grammar school in Kent but if you look at all of the other threads on Kent that discuss super selective scores then you will see that this is a long way short of what you would need to be offered a place at Skinners. I hate to be blunt but I think you would be wasting your time listing Skinners on the CAF, or any of the other super selectives. It would also be a waste to list TWSBG unless you move within catchment. You state elsewhere that you are planning to move to Dartford in November from Beds. I'm not surprised a head teacher in Beds is unfamiliar with Headteacher Appeals process for Kent!
If you apply to a grammar school in Kent your son will not be offered a place because he did not get a minimum of 106 on all 3 papers. He was not assessed as suitable for grammar. Naming a grammar on the CAF will allow you to appeal for that school. You have a good chance of winning an appeal since he missed 1 paper by 1 mark but you may win your appeal only to find that the school is oversubscribed or others appeal, win and get the place(s) because they live closer to the school than you.
If you are going to move to Kent do your research. Be clear of the date you have to be in by and the proof you will need to supply to the council of residency. Be clear where you are going to live and the nearby schools that your son would be eligible for. Rank the schools in order of your true preference on the CAF and make sure you choose at least one school that you and your son are happy with, that has an easy ish journey, that you are sure you would be offered a place at.
Currently i'm in Bedfordshire council and i can only give 3 preferred choice of schools rather than 4 in KCC. Hence, i though of putting three like below... So i get chance to appeal in each of grammar school.
1) Tunbridge Wells Grammar School for Boys
2) The Skinners’ School
3) The Judd School
and once i move to KCC, council said i would be allowed to give 4th preferred school - which i'm thinking to give "Skinners’ Kent Academy". Hoping that i would get Academy school and have opportunity to appeal for other 3 grammar schools, moving close to TBWGSB. And as +ve note, school HT can support in always to write anything if required as he too felt sorry that he ignored the initial HT appeal letter received from KCC. However, i wouldn't say my son was exceptionally well in English but i'm thinking that HT letter would make appeal stronger
Another information that i received from KCC is last year 40% appeals were successful but yes, we don't know on basis it was successful.
Appreciate any thoughts/comments on my thinking is much appreciated.... waiting for reply from someone.
Re: In case appeal is turned down - secondary school?
You need to give serious consideration to puttng down a school you know you will get as your third choice (as others have already said).
Otherwise you'll be allocated whatever school the LA can find you a place and it’s likely to be a School you really didnt want.
Its unfortunate you only have 3 choices. I think you need to think long and hard about which two of the three to put down and make sure the third is one you are likely to get offered and you are reasonably ok with.
Then concentrate on appeals.
Otherwise you'll be allocated whatever school the LA can find you a place and it’s likely to be a School you really didnt want.
Its unfortunate you only have 3 choices. I think you need to think long and hard about which two of the three to put down and make sure the third is one you are likely to get offered and you are reasonably ok with.
Then concentrate on appeals.
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streathammum
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Re: In case appeal is turned down - secondary school?
OP, I think your strategy is very risky on a couple of fronts.
1 - What if you don't manage to move before the December deadline? You won't be able to name a fourth Kent school and therefore won't be able to name a single school which you know your son is qualified for. If you then don't win any of the appeals, or if you win the appeal but are still not offered a place, you will be offered a place at a school that is undersubscribed and may be a long way away.
2 - What if you decide, after submitting the CAF, not to move at all? You will have named three schools on your CAF, you won't be able to name any more schools, they are all in Kent and your son won't be able to travel to them even if you did win the appeal. (Your home local authority will offer you a place but it will be at a school that is undersubscribed and may be a long way away.)
3 - What if you do move to TW by the deadline, name the Academy school, but don't meet its eligibility criteria? You will be offered a place at a school that is undersubscribed etc.
To be honest, if you haven't moved by now is it really feasible that you will be occupying a new address by early December? It's only seven weeks away.
I don't really know what to advise you. Do you need to move to Kent for any other reason than schools? If not, why can't you stay where you are and go to one of the schools near you? In your place I would want to name at least one school near where you are and (if you still think you will move) one school in Kent you will appeal and one school in Kent that isn't selective that you will be able to get into.
1 - What if you don't manage to move before the December deadline? You won't be able to name a fourth Kent school and therefore won't be able to name a single school which you know your son is qualified for. If you then don't win any of the appeals, or if you win the appeal but are still not offered a place, you will be offered a place at a school that is undersubscribed and may be a long way away.
2 - What if you decide, after submitting the CAF, not to move at all? You will have named three schools on your CAF, you won't be able to name any more schools, they are all in Kent and your son won't be able to travel to them even if you did win the appeal. (Your home local authority will offer you a place but it will be at a school that is undersubscribed and may be a long way away.)
3 - What if you do move to TW by the deadline, name the Academy school, but don't meet its eligibility criteria? You will be offered a place at a school that is undersubscribed etc.
To be honest, if you haven't moved by now is it really feasible that you will be occupying a new address by early December? It's only seven weeks away.
I don't really know what to advise you. Do you need to move to Kent for any other reason than schools? If not, why can't you stay where you are and go to one of the schools near you? In your place I would want to name at least one school near where you are and (if you still think you will move) one school in Kent you will appeal and one school in Kent that isn't selective that you will be able to get into.
Re: In case appeal is turned down - secondary school?
Some of those problems should be sort of solved, in that you should be able to add a fourth school once you are resident in Kent anyway - it's just that it will then be a late application if you haven't moved by the cutoff. So your request won't be considered in the first round of allocations. May be slightly better than the not having named an all-ability school in the first place scenario (if you are lucky, you will rank highly enough against the school's oversubscription criteria to get in as soon as late applications are considered).
Another option would be to list
1. One Kent grammar school
2. Kent all-ability school which you would get if you lived there
3. School you would get where you are now, if you apply for it.
If you decide not to move, you will be allocated (3), (you will also have the right of appeal to both (1) and (2) and be on the waiting list for (2), in case you change your mind again about the move).
If you do move, just after early December, you may not get (2), but you will be on the waiting list for it, be able to appeal for both (1) and (2) and you can add another Kent preference - or two, since you can now ditch the Beds school - which you may get straightaway but can at least also appeal and be on the waiting list for.
Just a thought.
Another option would be to list
1. One Kent grammar school
2. Kent all-ability school which you would get if you lived there
3. School you would get where you are now, if you apply for it.
If you decide not to move, you will be allocated (3), (you will also have the right of appeal to both (1) and (2) and be on the waiting list for (2), in case you change your mind again about the move).
If you do move, just after early December, you may not get (2), but you will be on the waiting list for it, be able to appeal for both (1) and (2) and you can add another Kent preference - or two, since you can now ditch the Beds school - which you may get straightaway but can at least also appeal and be on the waiting list for.
Just a thought.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
Re: In case appeal is turned down - secondary school?
I'm glad that the house move is all coming together and that you have considered your location needs as well.
I would still urge caution in listing 2 super selective schools. Yes, there are lots of successful appeals each year but not all of them result in a place at the chosen school. Chances are you will be appealing for non-qualification and over subscription for Judd and Skinners. You may convince the panel that your son should have passed and still not get a place.
As your situation stands at the moment, you can name 3 schools and none of those you have listed can offer you a place. If your move goes to plan, you will get a 4th choice but can you be absolutely sure there will be no glitches with your plans or that you will get offered a place at this 4th school? At this point in the year, there are virtually no guarantees of an offer since you don't know all of the variables. I know of a school where the boy living next door didn't get a place because religion and siblings were given a higher preference than distance.
Do you think your son dramatically under performed across all 3 papers? Have you visited the schools you are considering? Your son may have a strong preference. Are you prepared for the stress and work involved with an appeal?
One other point, grammar schools are just schools; some are good, some are bad and some are very ugly. My northerner husband doesn't understand the fuss and likes to point how well he has done, even though he 'only attended a comprehensive'.
Cross posted with Streathammum and Tinkers. And Toadmum!
I would still urge caution in listing 2 super selective schools. Yes, there are lots of successful appeals each year but not all of them result in a place at the chosen school. Chances are you will be appealing for non-qualification and over subscription for Judd and Skinners. You may convince the panel that your son should have passed and still not get a place.
As your situation stands at the moment, you can name 3 schools and none of those you have listed can offer you a place. If your move goes to plan, you will get a 4th choice but can you be absolutely sure there will be no glitches with your plans or that you will get offered a place at this 4th school? At this point in the year, there are virtually no guarantees of an offer since you don't know all of the variables. I know of a school where the boy living next door didn't get a place because religion and siblings were given a higher preference than distance.
Do you think your son dramatically under performed across all 3 papers? Have you visited the schools you are considering? Your son may have a strong preference. Are you prepared for the stress and work involved with an appeal?
One other point, grammar schools are just schools; some are good, some are bad and some are very ugly. My northerner husband doesn't understand the fuss and likes to point how well he has done, even though he 'only attended a comprehensive'.
Cross posted with Streathammum and Tinkers. And Toadmum!
Re: In case appeal is turned down - secondary school?
Thanks all for your comments above. Speak with Judde school and reading your reply - yes i agree putting Judde school and Skinner is like wasting 2 of 3 preferences as cut-off for them is too high.
I think my strategy could be
1) TBWGS
2 & 3 ) non selective school at TBW, where is possibility to securing a place.
And someone asked a question "what in case i can't move" - which is valid. In that case Luton council will give a school near to my location which i hate but may take initially and move to different area, go through in year process in that new area.
well yes, i agree all this is not an easy process i say and may be give piece of mind!
I think my strategy could be
1) TBWGS
2 & 3 ) non selective school at TBW, where is possibility to securing a place.
And someone asked a question "what in case i can't move" - which is valid. In that case Luton council will give a school near to my location which i hate but may take initially and move to different area, go through in year process in that new area.
well yes, i agree all this is not an easy process i say and may be give piece of mind!
