advice please
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ssvijimohan
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:56 pm
advice please
I have twin boys and one of them has been offered judd school at Tonbridge and the other though has passed the 11+ has not got high enough for judd he has scored only 388 140VR 123NVR 125maths,and has been offered our local comprehensive at hastings .my twins are of equal ability and i think he underperformed on that day. we cant manage two children going to school in two different towns .i am planning to get a ed psych assessment for him .should i get it for both the boys ,any other suggestions please.
Dear ssvijimohan
It's an interesting question.
I see no point in an EP report on the other twin.
I'm not entirely sure whether an EP report on the twin in question would be relevant.
You need to be clear what it is you are appealing against. Are you appealing because, although your son has passed, the school is oversubscribed?
There was an interesting discussion about this issue recently:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 4426#64426
I suggest you contact whoever is organising the appeal to ask what sort of evidence the panel might like. If they take the line "You are entitled to produce whatever evidence you wish", which is strictly correct, try to pin them down as to whether the panel are looking for an oversubscription case (see Q&As C2 for the sort of arguments usually put forward), or an academic case, or both!
It's an interesting question.
I see no point in an EP report on the other twin.
I'm not entirely sure whether an EP report on the twin in question would be relevant.
You need to be clear what it is you are appealing against. Are you appealing because, although your son has passed, the school is oversubscribed?
There was an interesting discussion about this issue recently:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 4426#64426
I suggest you contact whoever is organising the appeal to ask what sort of evidence the panel might like. If they take the line "You are entitled to produce whatever evidence you wish", which is strictly correct, try to pin them down as to whether the panel are looking for an oversubscription case (see Q&As C2 for the sort of arguments usually put forward), or an academic case, or both!
Etienne
This is probably not what you want to hear, but a friend who appealed for a place at Judd a couple of years ago told me that the appeal panel only really based their decision on the 11+ scores, hence those appellants with the highest scores got the places. She told me that they barely even looked at the appeal letter.
This isn't for Judds, but a few years ago my panel realised, once we'd decided on all the appeals, that apart from one, they all happened to be the top scoring children. Total co-incidence. Hadn't happened before or since.Sam's Mum wrote:This is probably not what you want to hear, but a friend who appealed for a place at Judd a couple of years ago told me that the appeal panel only really based their decision on the 11+ scores, hence those appellants with the highest scores got the places. She told me that they barely even looked at the appeal letter.
Capers
Capers
It's an interesting point you make. I would like to think that any appeal panel would consider all the evidence before them. However, Judd is very heavily oversubscribed and take children based purely on their 11+ score. This year the cut off score after the first round of offers was (I believe) 412 out of a maximum 420 - so you can see it is a highly academic school and 388 is a long way off the cut off..
ssvijimohan
I think you would need to provide some really compelling evidence as to your son's very high academic ability. Also, any mitigating circumstances. Before you consider ed psych reports, do you have any CAT scores for your sons? If their school has done these, this may give you a good comparison of abilities between the twins.
By the way, I am really sympathetic to your situation as I'm facing a similar problem (though not with Judd). I'm just trying to be realistic as I know how hard Judd is to get in to.
Good luck[/b]
It's an interesting point you make. I would like to think that any appeal panel would consider all the evidence before them. However, Judd is very heavily oversubscribed and take children based purely on their 11+ score. This year the cut off score after the first round of offers was (I believe) 412 out of a maximum 420 - so you can see it is a highly academic school and 388 is a long way off the cut off..
ssvijimohan
I think you would need to provide some really compelling evidence as to your son's very high academic ability. Also, any mitigating circumstances. Before you consider ed psych reports, do you have any CAT scores for your sons? If their school has done these, this may give you a good comparison of abilities between the twins.
By the way, I am really sympathetic to your situation as I'm facing a similar problem (though not with Judd). I'm just trying to be realistic as I know how hard Judd is to get in to.
Good luck[/b]
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2nd time arround
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:11 pm
- Location: kent
jimohan
Agree with others above. There is no point in paying good money for an Ed Psych report for the child who has already got the place at Judd.
And for the twin who hasn't got into Judd you need some really good evidence of extremely high academic ability as well as some good reasons as to why he did not perform highly enough on the day. this may or may not include an Ed Psych report.
Presumably you already have some evidence as you say that they are both of equal ability?
Remember that although you feel that it is logistically difficult for one twin to travel from Hastings to Tonbridge, and for the other to go to a local comprehensive, this should not sway the panel's judgement in any way (but maybe it would!).
There is no sibling priority any more in the admissions policies for the West Kent "super-selectives". So anyone who gets an older sibling into Judd, TOGS, or Skinners takes the risk that at a later date they may not get a younger sibling into the same school. You may feel more passionately about this now because they are twins, but in a way your choices are easier as you could decide now never to have the hassle of separate schools, and if the appeal fails, send them both to your local comprehensive.
I presume that both boys at 11 are capable of making the separate journeys to a local comprehensive in Hastings and to Judd in Tonbridge independently. It is a really long commute to Tonbridge. The twin who did not get in may in the end be really pleased!!
If you really did want to get them both into the same "super-selective" you could put both twins onto the waiting list for Skinners which has a lower cut-off mark and try your luck that way too. You would probably still have to appeal for the one with the lower score.
Have you put your "Judd" son on the waiting list for the local comp just in case you decide it would be better to avoid the commute for both of them?
And for the twin who hasn't got into Judd you need some really good evidence of extremely high academic ability as well as some good reasons as to why he did not perform highly enough on the day. this may or may not include an Ed Psych report.
Presumably you already have some evidence as you say that they are both of equal ability?
Remember that although you feel that it is logistically difficult for one twin to travel from Hastings to Tonbridge, and for the other to go to a local comprehensive, this should not sway the panel's judgement in any way (but maybe it would!).
There is no sibling priority any more in the admissions policies for the West Kent "super-selectives". So anyone who gets an older sibling into Judd, TOGS, or Skinners takes the risk that at a later date they may not get a younger sibling into the same school. You may feel more passionately about this now because they are twins, but in a way your choices are easier as you could decide now never to have the hassle of separate schools, and if the appeal fails, send them both to your local comprehensive.
I presume that both boys at 11 are capable of making the separate journeys to a local comprehensive in Hastings and to Judd in Tonbridge independently. It is a really long commute to Tonbridge. The twin who did not get in may in the end be really pleased!!
If you really did want to get them both into the same "super-selective" you could put both twins onto the waiting list for Skinners which has a lower cut-off mark and try your luck that way too. You would probably still have to appeal for the one with the lower score.
Have you put your "Judd" son on the waiting list for the local comp just in case you decide it would be better to avoid the commute for both of them?
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ssvijimohan
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:56 pm
advice please
Thanks to all of you for the useful discussion and advice.
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happybutnotsmug
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:44 pm
SORRY I POSTED THIS REPLY TO WRONG REQUEST EARLIER. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HERE.
The cut off for Judd was 411. For Skinners' 404. No appeal is likely to be successful to downgrade your son who passed for Judd (unless school is underscribed). You will almost certainly need more than your opinion that they are of the same ability. Sadly parents' opinions don't count in the process and that is why there are independent exams. It is not necessarily harsh that a child missing out by one or two marks is given preference over one that is a good way off - not just in scores but in the number of children above him in the list. Given your child is 23 points off the cut-off I would have thought you will need at a minimum a) documented proof of stellar prior achievement b) clear indication that he would "suffer" by not getting in c) a good reason (good as in perhaps different from others) as to why he performed to less than his ability on the day.
Sorry to be gloomy but I am trying to be honest.
The cut off for Judd was 411. For Skinners' 404. No appeal is likely to be successful to downgrade your son who passed for Judd (unless school is underscribed). You will almost certainly need more than your opinion that they are of the same ability. Sadly parents' opinions don't count in the process and that is why there are independent exams. It is not necessarily harsh that a child missing out by one or two marks is given preference over one that is a good way off - not just in scores but in the number of children above him in the list. Given your child is 23 points off the cut-off I would have thought you will need at a minimum a) documented proof of stellar prior achievement b) clear indication that he would "suffer" by not getting in c) a good reason (good as in perhaps different from others) as to why he performed to less than his ability on the day.
Sorry to be gloomy but I am trying to be honest.
