Thoughts on cut-offs this year

[um]

I've updated the sticky for final cut-off scores.

The Grammar School consortium have not published the final BV cut-off score yet, but we have had reports from parents that pupils on 222 have and have not been offered places so can assume that this was the cut-off.

Cut offs from Bham LA/Foundation (PP cut off in brackets was for pupils eligible for free school meals only)

Not all children on these scores will have received a place - if there is a tie in on the last score, places are allocated according to distance.

KE CH Boys: 242 (229) - up by 2 points
KE CH Girls: 236 (219) - up by 1 point
KE Five Ways: 232 (207) - down by 1 point
KE Handsworth (Girls): 224 (209) - up by 2 points
Bishop Vesey: 222 (204) - up by 2 points
KE Aston: 220 (205) - down by 2 points
Sutton Coldfield Girls: 218 - up by one point
KE Handsworth Grammar (Boys): 208 - same as last year

QMGS school confirmed cut-off is 337 - up by 13 points
QMHS school confirmed cut-off is 320 (300 for PP) - same as last year

Generally, despite the big increase in the birth rate this year and an increase in the number of children taking the exam, the scores have remained pretty stable, even - surprisingly - dropping, for KEFW and KEA.
I'd feared there could be a big jump within the Bham consortium- but there hasn't been

It's also the first year ever that a higher score was needed for BV than KEA, which is interesting.

The huge jump for QMGS is unprecedented and surprising - especially since QMHS has had no increase at all.
This was the first year they have allocated PP places as part of the admission criteria - and it could also be that they may have traditionally over-offered but have not done that this year. For those waiting for QMGS, hopefully the waiting list will move quickly.

[helen0209]

I was astounded by the rise at QMGS, as the introduction of PP at BV last year had no impact on their scores. Would have expected maybe an increase of up to 5 points, but not 13.

Felt HGS may have risen by 1 or 2 as they are now part of KE, but maybe that will take more of an effect next year?

Think in general though it does show that scores do have to level out / stagnate a little as they can only go so high - not every child can obtain 230+

Good luck to those on Waiting Lists.

[Lategate]

I too was astounded by the 337 QMGS cut off. I’ll hang on and see what the waiting list brings, but I think that 9 points below is unrealistic. I think that pp played a part in the increase, also the higher birth rate and the lack of other grammar school options in the Wolverhampton/Walsall area. But I honestly don’t feel that these factors combined would equate to a 12 point rise. I genuinely feel rather foolish for presenting QMGS to DS as a potential option for him!
I wonder what the cut off for AGS is.. and if parents have applied to both QMGS and AGS and felt more comfortable with the clarity of information from QMGS, so have opted there instead.

[crazycrofter]

Comparing the effect of pp on BV and QMGS, I think it must be something to do with the local area around the two schools? By this I mean that there are some very deprived areas within a 3 mile radius of QM where maybe pp children would never have taken the test before. If primary schools have got on board and encouraged them to take it that could mean all the pp places were taken by children who would never have otherwise been in the running and maybe got scores that wouldn’t have qualified them otherwise.

By comparison, perhaps in Sutton the brighter pp children would have taken it anyway and would have got higher marks - perhaps because they are pp for other reasons than simple poverty and deprivation. If 30 pp children got scores above 220 say, then the pp allocation wouldn’t have much impact on the cut off as those kids would have got in anyway.

I’m probably not being very clear but there are definitely different types of pp child. And in Sutton most of the pp children would be in a small minority, surrounded by high aspiration kids/parents, which rubs off. Walsall pp kids are different - and I say that having lived in north Walsall for 7 years. Some of our local schools were 70% made up of children on free school meals. Children at our kids’ school generally felt the grammars were too posh for them - I remember a friend of my daughter’s who got well over the cut off but put it third choice and ended up at a mediocre comp instead. Maybe also, now this scheme is in place such children (and parents) think there will be others like them there so they’re encouraged to apply?

[um]

Some really good points there CrazyCrofter.

[helen0209]

Some really good points there CrazyCrofter.

+1

[quasimodo]

The huge jump for QMGS is unprecedented and surprising - especially since QMHS has had no increase at all.
This was the first year they have allocated PP places as part of the admission criteria - and it could also be that they may have traditionally over-offered but have not done that this year. For those waiting for QMGS, hopefully the waiting list will move quickly.

QMGS have 150 places of which 30 are for pupil premium boys and QMHS have 120 places of which 30 are for pupil premium girls making a proportion of 1/5 to 1/4 between the schools for the proportion of pupil places offered.

In 2016 the cut off score for QMGS in March was 321. ( 150 places )

In 2017 it was 324. ( 150 places )

In 2018 it is 337. ( 120 places non pp )

In 2017 the cut off score for QMHS in March was 320. ( 120 places )

In 2018 it was 320 ( 90 places non pp )

Traditionally over the years the cut offs for WGHS and QMHS have been more and less similar,the only difference this year being that WGHS doesn't have any specific pp places.QMGS cut off due to less supply of places for boys in the consortium have been generally about 5 or 6 points higher over the years than QMHS and WGHS.

This year the difference between the schools is over 17.QMHS being 320 and WGHS slightly lower.The only change being on the face it QMGS had 30 less places for non pp boys.However in 2017/18 according to the schools website they already have 64 pupil premium boys which is about 9 a year so the reduction will only in reality be 21 places. QMHS had also 30 less places but from looking at the school website had a greater number of existing pp girls than the boys ( 84 pp girls at the school 2016/17 ).It works out about 12 pp pupils per year so it is only an effective reduction of 18 places.

Over the years the consortium exam has changed the date of its exam from the end of year 5 to the beginning of year 6 reducing the numbers taking it.This has clearly impacted the cut offs in the years previously.

What is going on this year ? Is the demand greater for QMBS ? Is the demand less for QMHS ? Has QMBS issued at pan ? Have QMHS issued at pan ?

My only thought when I saw the QMBS cut off was had they issued at pan which I expressed at the time ? Its not unprecedented as the KE Grammars did this when they introduced pp and the cut offs increased that year.

In respect of both QMBS and QMHS I believe I saw on the schools websites that the pp floor for the cut off was going to set at 305 subject to ratification by the governors.It was a surprise to me to see the floor according to information from QMHS was set at 300.It is likely to be similar at QMBS although I have heard nothing on the matter.

Only time will tell what is going on if anything.

[Lategate]

Some really good points there CrazyCrofter.

+1

I agree!
I think the part about primary schools getting on board is a possibility, especially as 11+ skills will enhance SATS performance, it’s a winner if the primaries have the time and resources.

[helen0209]

[quote="Lategate"] I genuinely feel rather foolish for presenting QMGS to DS as a potential option for him!
quote]

Please don't! We said the same to DS2 - if 217 didn't get him HGS, then the 333 would get QM! Think it came as a shock to us all.

[um]

Another thing to be aware of is that the point scores for QM/Walsall area consortium are higher as Maths/VR/NVR are each counted separately with a general average of 100 each, and totalled up with a general 'average' being 300.
For the Bham consortium, the point scores are calculated Maths,NVR/VR counted separately with a general average of 100 each and totalled up with a general average being 200.

So, essentially, 13 points in Walsall, which seems a crazy jump to us, would be a 9 point jump in Bham - still high, but not incredible, as we saw 8-point jumps at CHB and FW between 2014 and 2015 when PP was introduced.

However in 2015 we also saw rapid waiting list movement, which is what I'm hoping for for those waiting!