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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:55 pm 
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I'm wondering what percentage is needed to generally gain a place in a Grammar school in Glos.

Is it an overall score for the whole test, or an average based on each aspect of the test?

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:34 am 
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I have prepped quite few children for the test, and a year or so ago someone else posted their findings on this. But you must remember that if a lot more children sit the test, or the test is particularly hard/easy, then it will vary.

So, in my experience, for the 'normal' grammar schools (ie not Pates), using the tests in the back of the CPG practice books, they need 50-60 percent to get in. Tha doesn't mean necessarily in the top 150, but to get a place on allocation day.
With under 50 they may still get a place in second rounds, with over 60 they will probably get a place in top 150. And (but I am less certain of this) 60-70 gives them a shot at Pates.

That is the mark based on the tests in the book, done according to the time etc set out in the book. Also based on commercial mock tests taken in June/July.

Also with reference to those books, the NVR in the test seems to be easier than the tests in the back of the book. The maths tests are impossible to do in the time they allow, whereas in the exam they seem to finish most/all of the maths, so I now allow more time than given when doing those tests.
Some of the books (is it English?) the tests get harder, and the middle one is about the right level, test 6 is really the level for Pates.

The test does vary though, word of mouth said that last year the maths was easy and the English hard. I had 2 kids sitting, one was amazing at English, but borderline to pass in maths, and she got a reasonable ranking, and a place on allocation day. The other was very bright, expected to get into Pates, but her strength was maths and her English was less good. She missed out on Pates.

As to your second question, I don't know, but I think I had heard that Pates expects you to get a certain level in all areas, whereas the others use a total average?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:37 am 
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just to clarify - the percentage I've given is based on the test done according to the time in the book, but now when using them I let them continue to finish the test and make a note of how far they got, as in the actual exam there seems to be fewer questions in the time given.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:01 am 
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Pure and simply, the question is unanswerable.. no one knows, it will change from school to school, year to year. Sorry to be blunt but that's the truth.
I have no direct knowledge but regarding how the scores are worked, it has been reported here that Pates state they need a certain grade in each discipline.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:59 am 
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Hi

It will vary up & down each year depending on the cohorts & the exam...my rule of thumb has been

Pates - 70%+ For Pates you must reach a certain score in each of verbal, maths & non verbal reasoning.
STR / HSFG / SHS - 60%+
Marling / Crypt / Ribston - 55% +

I don't think there is a pass mark as such - you either meet the qualifying standard or not & that varies for each school


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:51 am 
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Bear in mind general impressions seem to be that boys tend to do a bit better in the 11+ for whatever reason. Not scientific, but my son ranked v similar for Crypt as 2 girls we know, but the girls were within the top 150 for SHS and he was outside the top 150 for Marling. They were so close for Crypt I am guessing that they all got around the same score but that his score was less impressive when split by gender. If you are looking purely at results and single sex schools, I think you probably have to get a higher % to be confident of getting into the boys grammars than the girls grammars on balance. No doubt plenty will disagree with better evidence than I have available! I suspect the truth would shock us all, which is probably why there is so much smoke and mirrors. Interesting article in the guardian today, BTW, on how grammars add no value but it looks like some of the study's conclusions and methodology may need looking into.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm 
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I was browsing and came across this thread - is it really the general consensus that 60-70 % gives you a shot at Pates? I was thinking we would have to be getting 90-100 to be in with a chance?!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:51 pm 
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After this years test, I would revise my estimates up. Not sure if that is no of children sitting, or the test, but I would now look for 60%+ for most and 70-80% for Pates.

If I was tutoring for Pates though I would only be happy if they were scoring 80% + just to be safe.

I don't think you need 90-100%

BUT this years test more than any pulled surprises. I knew about 10 children sitting, about half of whom I tutored.
one child (not one of mine) was getting 90% on all mock tests etc, and his friend (one of mine) was panicking that he wasn't getting similar. In the end the lad scoring 90% failed to get a place in any of the grammars! No idea what was going on there.

One of my tutees was scoring comfortably well and failed to get a place anywhere either, much to our shock and surprise. This regularly scoring less than her all got placed.

So, overall, the message is that you can never tell what happens on the day.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:59 am 
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Thanks Steppemum - I sent you a PM. Hope ok.


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