Advice needed urgently re twin appeal please.
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Advice needed urgently re twin appeal please.
We had our appeal today. At the end the Head said he understood our daughter had a twin who had also applied. We said that we hadn't appealed for both because their twin criteria states that if one qualifies for a place then the other would also be offered a place.
He told us that this didn't apply to appeals!
We had received a phone call from the admissions secretary about two weeks before the appeal asking whether we would want to appeal for our son too. My husband said we wouldn't be as we understood that the admissions criteria said that if our daughter won her appeal he would get a place automatically. At no time did she say this wasn't the case - but she did say she would be mentioning it to the panel.
We feel very misled - obviously if she had told us what we have been told today during this phone conversation we would have put in an appeal for our son too - we didn't feel his grounds were as strong so we decided to only do it for our daughter.
What should we do next? We feel we need to put this in writing to the Governing Body (it is a foundation school which runs its own appeals).
The whole thing has been a waste of time as even if our daughter's appeal is successful then we won't accept the place without one for her brother.
He told us that this didn't apply to appeals!
We had received a phone call from the admissions secretary about two weeks before the appeal asking whether we would want to appeal for our son too. My husband said we wouldn't be as we understood that the admissions criteria said that if our daughter won her appeal he would get a place automatically. At no time did she say this wasn't the case - but she did say she would be mentioning it to the panel.
We feel very misled - obviously if she had told us what we have been told today during this phone conversation we would have put in an appeal for our son too - we didn't feel his grounds were as strong so we decided to only do it for our daughter.
What should we do next? We feel we need to put this in writing to the Governing Body (it is a foundation school which runs its own appeals).
The whole thing has been a waste of time as even if our daughter's appeal is successful then we won't accept the place without one for her brother.
Just my thoughts. Maybe Etienne etc will have some more expert knowledge than me.
Oh dear, I know how bad I would feel in this situation. Is there anything written anywhere which says what you believed to be the case? I'm really sorry but I have never heard of a successful appeal for one twin being relevant to the other one too. And I'm not sure whether you can do anything about the way the admissions secretary did not correct your misunderstanding of the situation ----- and maybe she does not understand how appeals work for twins for that school.
However, there is one glimmer of hope. The school waiting list is administered according to the school admission policy. So, if your twin son is on the waiting list, he will now move up it to whatever place being a twin of someone about to join the school places him. What does the admission policy say about twins?
Good luck.
Oh dear, I know how bad I would feel in this situation. Is there anything written anywhere which says what you believed to be the case? I'm really sorry but I have never heard of a successful appeal for one twin being relevant to the other one too. And I'm not sure whether you can do anything about the way the admissions secretary did not correct your misunderstanding of the situation ----- and maybe she does not understand how appeals work for twins for that school.
However, there is one glimmer of hope. The school waiting list is administered according to the school admission policy. So, if your twin son is on the waiting list, he will now move up it to whatever place being a twin of someone about to join the school places him. What does the admission policy say about twins?
Good luck.
No real knowledge....just wondered if this was your second appeal (I remember reading that you had an appeal last week I think?). Perhaps the twins thing won't apply at that first school?
With so few - if any - places being available on appeal, like Perplexed, I would be very surprised if one twin winning could possibly allow the other in too.
With so few - if any - places being available on appeal, like Perplexed, I would be very surprised if one twin winning could possibly allow the other in too.
Re: Advice needed urgently re twin appeal please.
I remember that we discussed before whether the admissions secretary could brief the panel, and I said that I thought the matter of a twin was more likely to be raised at the hearing.
It's going to be very difficult to establish who said exactly what in a phone conversation, so my advice would be not to pursue a complaint.
Admission criteria = oversubscription criteria. The oversubscription criteria are used when there are more applicants than vacancies.
I would need to see exactly how the oversubscription criteria are worded to be sure, but if your daughter were admitted as a result of a successful appeal, and a vacancy then became available (two children would have to leave, assuming your appeal takes the numbers to PAN + 1), it is quite possible that the twin brother would be top of the waiting list and be offered the place.
Even if there's no vacancy, a successful appeal for your daughter could still be advantageous. If she were admitted as a result of a successful appeal, and you then appeal for the other twin, the appeal panel would certainly take into account that one twin has already been admitted.
It's going to be very difficult to establish who said exactly what in a phone conversation, so my advice would be not to pursue a complaint.
Admission criteria = oversubscription criteria. The oversubscription criteria are used when there are more applicants than vacancies.
I would need to see exactly how the oversubscription criteria are worded to be sure, but if your daughter were admitted as a result of a successful appeal, and a vacancy then became available (two children would have to leave, assuming your appeal takes the numbers to PAN + 1), it is quite possible that the twin brother would be top of the waiting list and be offered the place.
Even if there's no vacancy, a successful appeal for your daughter could still be advantageous. If she were admitted as a result of a successful appeal, and you then appeal for the other twin, the appeal panel would certainly take into account that one twin has already been admitted.
Etienne
Thanks Etienne
This is their admission criteria:
http://www.rickmansworth.herts.sch.uk/G ... ansfer.pdf
Twins is referred to under 8.3
I would be grateful for your advice.
This is their admission criteria:
http://www.rickmansworth.herts.sch.uk/G ... ansfer.pdf
Twins is referred to under 8.3
I would be grateful for your advice.
Toony
Interestingly, the reference you posted was headed "Admissions POLICY".
The reference to twins is repeated on the Admission Arrangements page but it's as a footnote. There is no "twin criterion" as such.
I am beginning to think that the admissions secretary may not have come across your situation before, and didn't know what to say!
Because of this, I am also beginning to think you could try challenging what the headteacher said. Their policy states "Where applications are made on behalf of twins and only one twin qualifies for admission ......." - If I had been drawing up the policy, I would have added "This does not apply where one twin qualifies for admission as the result of a successful appeal," if that's what I wanted it to mean.
So we have three possibilities in the event of a successful appeal:
1. Dispute the head's interpretation of the wording. If he refuses to budge, it would mean seeing what the ombudsman thinks.
2. Hope for a place from the waiting list - you would need to contact the school to get some idea about his position on the waiting list.
3. Appeal for a place for your son. (I'm not sure that a foundation school panel would be as sympathetic as an LA panel might have been, but one never knows. Whatever the admission arrangements may be, you are entitled to point out that a twin has already been admitted, and they are duty bound to consider this.)
Interestingly, the reference you posted was headed "Admissions POLICY".
The reference to twins is repeated on the Admission Arrangements page but it's as a footnote. There is no "twin criterion" as such.
I am beginning to think that the admissions secretary may not have come across your situation before, and didn't know what to say!
Because of this, I am also beginning to think you could try challenging what the headteacher said. Their policy states "Where applications are made on behalf of twins and only one twin qualifies for admission ......." - If I had been drawing up the policy, I would have added "This does not apply where one twin qualifies for admission as the result of a successful appeal," if that's what I wanted it to mean.
So we have three possibilities in the event of a successful appeal:
1. Dispute the head's interpretation of the wording. If he refuses to budge, it would mean seeing what the ombudsman thinks.
2. Hope for a place from the waiting list - you would need to contact the school to get some idea about his position on the waiting list.
3. Appeal for a place for your son. (I'm not sure that a foundation school panel would be as sympathetic as an LA panel might have been, but one never knows. Whatever the admission arrangements may be, you are entitled to point out that a twin has already been admitted, and they are duty bound to consider this.)
Etienne
