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 Post subject: Wirral Concern
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:54 pm
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Hi, Hope you can offer some help.

DS narrowly missed out on Wirral selection last week. Score was 234 with a pass mark of 236. Wife today has spoken to primary head who did not refer to IAB and doesn't seem keen to support.
We are out of Wirral area (Welsh schools) and are now aware of some differences in maths topics that primary school has been teaching in year 5....
DS is only now getting exposed to fractions etc that appear to be a focus on the CEM list and last years specialist math teacher (DS was streamed to top set) went onto maternity leave part way through year, leaving DS with 3 supply teachers since Xmas.

What is the liklihood of an successful appeal in March next year if primary head does not support and does anyone have any view on differences in Welsh vs English curriculium?
Welsh standardised reading and numeracy tests in yr 5 were good, 121, 108, 128 for Reading, Numeracy Procedural and Numeracy Reasoning Tests. Procedural score dropped in Yr 4 to yr 5 while reasoning stayed high.

Will appeal board consider curriculum differences Wales to England & is it worth appealing?

Any help appreciated
Thx!


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 Post subject: Re: Wirral Concern
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7708
Welcome to Appeals! :)

Start here:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 35&t=35032

Once you've finished reading, if you still have unanswered questions, do please let us know.

NWconcerned wrote:
What is the liklihood of an successful appeal in March next year if primary head does not support?
No one can normally be sure about the outcome of an appeal.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a36

If the head won't support:
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... cation#b20

Quote:
Will appeal board consider curriculum differences Wales to England & is it worth appealing?
The appeal panel must take account of any extenuating circumstances, but ultimately you do have to provide sufficient academic evidence of high ability:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b11
and specific reasons for wanting a place at the school being appealed for:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c2

With a shortfall of just two marks it must be worth seeing if you can put together a reasonable appeal case.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: Wirral Concern
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:14 pm
Posts: 1
Hello,

My daughter was 1 mark away last year and the school (CWAC) advised that schools in different areas have policies about whether to support IAB reviews. The Wirral schools do automatically as they get the scores by email beforehand. Other areas are supposed to have them posted. The HT said something about it being discretionary depending on their view and there are usually emails btw the HT's enquiringly about the consensus to provide support or not. Not really fair.

To cut a long story short, the school did send information regarding Key Stage 1 and 2 results and reading scores etc and Wirral has a second IAB last year due to some schools that were missed. We got the result back that they deemed her to be Grammar school standard so we could apply. She has now started Year 7 at WKGS.

There is another pupil who I am aware did not pass, I am not sure of the result but she is in. And another girl I am aware of was 3 away and she didn't get through on appeal.

I think with 1 of 2 marks there is a strong argument for at least a review now to save the stress of having to wait until March.

Hope that helps.

Good luck


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 Post subject: Re: Wirral Concern
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 7389
At risk of sounding either prejudiced or inflammatory, neither of which I intend (but there is no easy way to say this), it is known that Welsh school standards are some way below English ones in every recognised way of measuring them (and regulars will know my view of such measures).
Here is BBC report on it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/39132948

And here is an extract from the OECD 2015 PISA report:
Quote:
Within the United Kingdom, students in England score 512 points, on average, and students in Northern Ireland score 500 points, on average – both above the OECD average. Students in Scotland score 497 points, around the OECD average, while students in Wales score 485 points, which is below the OECD average


and one from the Economist:

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/ ... rove-worst


In short, it is not hard to find evidence that a child at school in Wales might be expected to perform poorly in comparison with a child at school in England on the same test. It is my feeling that this ought to be taken into account in your situation. But of course I have no experience of these panels nor any power to influence them. Maybe the experts here could advise whether any of the mass of comparative data readily available out there could help you?


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 Post subject: Re: Wirral Concern
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7708
Thanks, Amber - arguably an extenuating circumstance.

Normally, though, the parent would still have to convince the panel of academic ability/potential somehow.

Alternative reasoning test scores such as CATs might be useful in this situation.

If it can be afforded (and if the results are sufficiently good!), an educational psychologist's report might possibly help as a last resort. It's less dependent on the curriculum.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: Wirral Concern
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:12 am 
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Even for 2 marks? Gosh. I would have thought achieving that score with a totally different curriculum which hadn’t covered much of the test was evidence of ability in itself. Shows what use I am!

Wishing you well NW.


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 Post subject: Re: Wirral Concern
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7708
Amber wrote:
Even for 2 marks? Gosh. I would have thought achieving that score with a totally different curriculum which hadn’t covered much of the test was evidence of ability in itself. Shows what use I am!
Note the careful wording ........ "Normally". :?

Nothing is set in stone.
We try to anticipate what the three individuals on the panel might think, and suggest what might help strengthen a case.

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:54 pm
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Hi, Hope someone can offer some guidance :D

We have an appeal with Wirral in a couple of weeks for DD and WKGS. She narrowly missed out by 2 marks in CEM test last September.
Our appeal has good support from primary head, but she is out of area.

We've read the advice that we should support the appear based on academic ability and have good evidence of her results from year 5 tests, strong reading age vs actual age etc.

Does anyone have any advice or guidance on how the panel appeal is likely to proceed -do panels have specific formats that they will question on?

Any advice appreciated!!

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Wirral Concern
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7708
Quote:
do panels have specific formats that they will question on?
No - individual panel members are completely independent, and free to ask whatever questions they see fit (provided that they comply with the Code).
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a4

Please would you keep to one thread on Appeals.
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a59

Quote:
We've read the advice that we should support the appear based on academic ability
More than that - we also pointed out in October that you need to put forward specific reasons for wanting a place at the school in question.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: Wirral Concern
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:54 pm
Posts: 4
Just a quick note to thank you for your guidance over last few months.

Appeal had been successful and DD has an acceptance for WKGS.

Etienne -you made brilliant points in your notes and ALL came up in the appeal.
I felt well prepared for it.

Thank you! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :)

Invaluable support.


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