Go to navigation
It is currently Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:00 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 8901
Yep, it's a vain hope. Also, it's easier to tutor / coach / encourage / call it what you like, in maths and english than it is to improve someone's verbal and non-verbal reasoning ability.

They still have to pass the verbal and non-verbal.

Schools have widely differing KS2 results in maths and english. Tends to be, round here anyhow, that the ones with the more balanced intake "socio-economically" have worse results in maths and english than the "nice" little schools with an overpreponderance of wealthier parents who drive them miles to school and have time to hear them read every day etc.

Take what you want from that, but it's too facile to assume that just because two-thirds of your test is in school subjects that it is "fairer". Which is why I ignored that as something which might have made the test "fairer".

KCC never commissioned any work from GL themselves on examining whether the new test was fairer than the old test did they? If they did, they've kept it under their hats.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:24 pm
Posts: 46
Quote:
It is hardly surprising if people conflate the test giver with the test provider even after they stopped making such claims.


You lost me.

The test provider gives the test (to the test takers) surely - but still - what are you saying?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:59 am
Posts: 2119
Sorry - I am talking about the test publishers and the LA.

The test creators Nfer (pre GL) and CEM both indicated previously that coaching for the test either had a minimal impact on outcome or their test were designed to demonstrate natural ability therefore resistant to tutoring. I’m speaking from memory as these claims are no longer included on their websites. This has been loosely referred to on the forum as tutor proof.



viewtopic.php?t=6965

https://community.tes.com/threads/cem-w ... ty.744669/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:56 am
Posts: 209
mystery wrote:
Also, it's easier to tutor / coach / encourage / call it what you like, in maths and english than it is to improve someone's verbal and non-verbal reasoning ability.

It starts realy early as well. I've heard of parents reading to their children at night and asking them to weigh baking ingredients and calculate change. All cheats in my mind :)

I don't think tests can be made 'tutor proof' in this sense. More places for PP/FSM is probably the way to go.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 9:55 am
Posts: 72
Just to point out though that some state schools (certainly in Medway where I live) do provide 11+ coaching albeit mainly not in school time. One of the schools I know, asks interested pupils to come in at 8am once a week for VR/NVR/Maths 11+ support in Year 5. I have seen some of the photocopied material given to the children, some of these are CGP material. I know another school that selects a few students and provides extra support for them during school time (i.e. the children are taken to a different classroom and they go through 11+ work with them, in actual fact, this particular school used to sit their Medway exam on a Sat (only few Medway schs did that, most schools sit Tue and Wed) and after the other schools sat their exam, obviously having realised that the creative writing theme that came out, they revised this with the students in question before their Saturday exam, giving them unfair advantage). I know at least 3 other state schools that have the 11+ "club" for Year 5 students.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:24 pm
Posts: 1095
Location: Petts Wood, Bromley, Kent
RedPanda wrote:
mystery wrote:
Also, it's easier to tutor / coach / encourage / call it what you like, in maths and english than it is to improve someone's verbal and non-verbal reasoning ability.

It starts realy early as well. I've heard of parents reading to their children at night and asking them to weigh baking ingredients and calculate change. All cheats in my mind :)

I don't think tests can be made 'tutor proof' in this sense. More places for PP/FSM is probably the way to go.


:lol: RedPanda. So true. I remember one parent who bemoaned the fact my DD had a good vocabulary which gave her unfair advantage, she went back to her mobile and ignored her own DC when they asked her a question. I am convinced the parent facing pram we had for DD until she was three was a huge help in her development but I didn't buy it to get her through the 11+, but so she could learn better to interact with us and be up high away from the car fumes.

At DD's grammar school the intake for September 2019 - so those taking the test this month, will for the first time have allowances for PP girls. For schools going by score it can be a challenge without breaching Admissions Code guidelines but they seem to have found a way round it by saying those who score in the top 350, so it is still about score, and on PP will get a place. I've seen other schools that give a lower threshold. It is all a very positive move. The school has a catchment area of 9 miles so covers both privileged neighbourhoods and deprived areas of SE London. We even get girls coming in from Kent...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 1253
Location: Buckinghamshire
RedPanda wrote:
I don't think tests can be made 'tutor proof' in this sense. More places for PP/FSM is probably the way to go.

I wouldn't put it past the most desperate of parents to try and cheat their way around that though.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2018