Selection Review or Appeal?

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Oakdene24
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 4:50 pm

Selection Review or Appeal?

Post by Oakdene24 »

Hello. I suspect my child will have missed the mark for the Bucks test, as 2 sections were missed due to not turning the page (I know - this is a ludicrous error, but it happened nevertheless). The invigilator noted this as my child was distraught when it was noticed, and she had to be consoled in the break and encouraged to carry on to the second paper.

If the mark shows she missed it due to non-completion of the 12 or so questions, which route would be best for us? The school and head teacher have already indicated they are in full support and she is a clear candidate for a grammar school. She has a reading age of 16 (but despite all the reading, didn't turn the damn page!), and has reports for the last 4 years showing she is working above the expected standard in reading, writing, and maths. In previous mocks and tests completed at home she was getting around 85% on each paper. We fully expected her to pass, so hadn't considered any of the potential challenges we now face.

I suppose it isn't impossible for her to still pass, but I'd say it was unlikely. Having read about appeals and selection reviews I would just really like to know if anyone else's child has had a similar situation, and what approach we should take.

Thanks in anticipation of any input.
Mummyinaction
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2023 6:27 pm

Re: Selection Review or Appeal?

Post by Mummyinaction »

Hi I feel your pain my daughter did the same missed 5 questions and notified the invigilator but nothing was done about it. We have written to 11plus and admissions.
Aethel
Posts: 1122
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:24 pm

Re: Selection Review or Appeal?

Post by Aethel »

Hi Oakdene, I’m sorry this has happened to your DC, and hope that the outcome will be okay. As someone who has been through the system last year with my youngest , I’d advise that you go to the “Appeals” Selection review and look at the stickies in the Bucks forum about selection reviews, and how they work.

Are you in a Bucks school or a partner school? It won’t change the mark but the in Bucks heads are often better versed in what to write for Selection Reviews/Appeals as they know the system.

Firstly make sure your concerns were noted by the school as close to the exam time as possible. (sounds like you have already informed them). Did the Invigilator note the distress/situation down? If DC sat at school, they will know. If Dc sat from out of area eg in one of the grammars, it may be hard to know if the error was noted, so it’s worth contacting Bucks CC on their online form to explain there was an error made (missing out two page turns and calmed down by invigilator) that you think will affect DCs mark so can this be formally noted by them so it’s documented in the system.

Secondly, is your DC performing highly (aiming for Greater Depth in all SATs and ideally with Exceeding/GDS in their KS1 sats results? if so and school expected them to pass then this is a good start for a Selection Review.

Read all the FAQ notes in Appeals : they are really good

remember it’s possible DC may pass anyway if they aced the other sections! But if they don’t you probably want a Selection Review because if it’s successful, they get allocated a Grammar Place with all the other children that passed.

If you wait for Appeal, then the school will be FULL by the time the outcome is known. not enough parents seem to realise this. Selection review is not guaranteed but it’s quick and if it works puts them into the “passed” pile. So that’s probably a better fit for your circumstances. Good luck!
Oakdene24
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 4:50 pm

Re: Selection Review or Appeal?

Post by Oakdene24 »

Thank you SO much for this. I have been reading all the pinned posts but there is an overwhelming amount of information and my tiny brain can't cope (I'd have failed the 11+ for sure!).

She sat it at school (we're in Bucks) and it was noted as the school rang me and I went over and they showed me the form which documents the time, the length of time removed from the exam, the reasons (exactly what my daughter said through her sobs etc) so I hope this has been noted. The head has already emailed me to advise they will support her if an appeal/selection review is needed which I think bodes well?

I don't have her predicted scores etc so I will approach the school for these. I would like to have everything ready prior to results as if we don't need it then that's fab, but if we do I know the window is short. I also feel like by doing something I have somehow got control over the situation (which I obviously haven't but I'm taking a "knowledge is power" approach!)
Oakdene24
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 4:50 pm

Re: Selection Review or Appeal?

Post by Oakdene24 »

Mummyinaction wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:56 pm Hi I feel your pain my daughter did the same missed 5 questions and notified the invigilator but nothing was done about it. We have written to 11plus and admissions.
Oh dear! Although at least now we both know that it happens! Did your daughter sit it at school? When you say you've informed the 11plus and admissions, what do you mean please?
Aethel
Posts: 1122
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:24 pm

Re: Selection Review or Appeal?

Post by Aethel »

mummyinaction may have her child at an eleven plus tutor, and means she informed them?

@Mummyinaction , if you are thinking of a selection review for your child my advice is the same: start a new thread in Apppeals entitled something like MummyInAction Selection Review, and then your info can be kept in its own place.
Again check the SR information posts: tutors don’t have any i put into the selection reviews/appeals at all really as their information is not useful/objective compared to the schools

Oakdene, don’t worry about predicted KS2 scores right now, if you need to selection Review, your head will fill in a form as part of that confirming KS1 results, year 4/5 achievement levels and predicted KS2 results in a small table. They also will have already ranked your child prior to the testing (all Bucks school heads do this pre the actual exams) with a “suitability for Grammar” rating of effort (1= independent keen and curious, 4 = utterly unmotivated and def not suited) and achievement (1= super across board and would keep up with grammar work 4= lower achiever and would struggle hugely).

most successful reviews are ranked 1-2 for both measures, thoug occasionally a school is unsupportive, or surprised because a child who they think is sub average does well in the test and passes (fine) or almost passes (harder to win review with a 3:4 ranking from school).
is
Aethel
Posts: 1122
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:24 pm

Re: Selection Review or Appeal?

Post by Aethel »

And remember, you both might be fortunate and your DC both pass (which would be lovely).

If not, Etienne runs the Appeals board and is fantastic and very knowledgeable.
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Selection Review or Appeal?

Post by Etienne »

Oakdene24 wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:09 pm Hello. I suspect my child will have missed the mark for the Bucks test, as 2 sections were missed due to not turning the page (I know - this is a ludicrous error, but it happened nevertheless).
Welcome! So sorry to hear this.

Oakdene24 wrote:If the mark shows she missed it due to non-completion of the 12 or so questions, which route would be best for us?
There's no simple answer, I'm afraid. It depends on your case - and I don't mean the extenuating circumstances (which appear to be well-established in this instance).
Academic evidence of high ability matters more than extenuating circumstances for the purposes of a review or appeal.

Oakdene24 wrote:The school and head teacher have already indicated they are in full support and she is a clear candidate for a grammar school.
This is very helpful, but Aethel makes a good point:
    • Aethel wrote:Are you in a Bucks school or a partner school? It won’t change the mark but the in Bucks heads are often better versed in what to write for Selection Reviews/Appeals as they know the system.
I would just add that even within Bucks (& partner schools) some heads are known to be better than others at putting forward a case.

Oakdene24 wrote:reports for the last 4 years showing she is working above the expected standard in reading, writing, and maths
How far above average, I wonder?
I agree with Aethel:
    • Aethel wrote:is your DC performing highly (aiming for Greater Depth in all SATs and ideally with Exceeding/GDS in their KS1 sats results? if so and school expected them to pass then this is a good start for a Selection Review
- I would just add:
      • and GDS in Reading, Writing, Maths in Y3, Y4, Y5? if so, and school expects them to achieve GDS/111-120 at KS2, then this is a good start for a Selection Review or for an appeal.

In previous mocks and tests completed at home she was getting around 85% on each paper
Reassuring for you with regard to her ability, but not really independent evidence for a panel to look at.

Oakdene24 wrote:I would just really like to know if anyone else's child has had a similar situation
It doesn't really matter what the extenuating circumstances are - provided they can be satisfactorily corroborated, and seem sufficient to a panel to explain the shortfall in marks.
Let's keep repeating:
Academic evidence of high ability matters more than extenuating circumstances. :wink:

Oakdene24 wrote:and what approach we should take
I understand why you ask, but parents who've had a successful review are likely to recommend a review, and parents who went straight to appeal - and succeeded - are likely to recommend going straight to appeal!

Aethel wrote:If you wait for Appeal, then the school will be FULL by the time the outcome is known
This is an important consideration. If you were to go straight to an appeal, you would probably need a very good reason for wanting a place at the school in question.
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... -school#c2

But if you go for a review, bear in mind that, if unsuccessful, a subsequent appeal will be rejected out of hand unless it can be shown that the review of your case was flawed (i.e. not fair, consistent or objective).

Oakdene24 wrote:I would like to have everything ready prior to results as if we don't need it then that's fab, but if we do I know the window is short. I also feel like by doing something I have somehow got control over the situation
I sympathise, but - to be honest - you will be in no position to judge what to do until you have the transfer test score (there's a big difference between 120 and 114, for example!), and have seen exactly what the headteacher's summary report says.

Oakdene24 wrote:I have been reading all the pinned posts but there is an overwhelming amount of information
Not sure what you've been looking at in particular. If there are no simple answers to the question "What do you recommend?", it's because there are no easy answers.
Headteachers routinely steer their parents towards a review because they perceive that to be the next step in the process.

What we try to do on here is spell out the pros and cons - which no one else is going to do - so that you can arrive at an informed decision.
See:
E33. Can you advise whether we would be better off opting for a Bucks selection review or going straight to an appeal?
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/advic ... aneous#e33
Etienne
Scarecrow
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:37 pm

Re: Selection Review or Appeal?

Post by Scarecrow »

Hi Oakdene, my son went through a situation where he missed the pass mark by a lot but was eligible for a review (not Bucks though). We were shocked and didn't suspect that anything obvious had happened on the day, although looking back he may have marked the boxes in a way that the computer didn't scan the answers properly but we'll never know.

We submitted a review based on the lines of 'Mary's Review Letter' see section E32c. on the Q and A's. Basically there was overwhelming academic and intellectual evidence which made the review successful, and in turn gaining a place at the school.

So if you are reasonably confident of your daughter's abilities, and can get very good supporting evidence from her school with a clear trajectory of GDS and high achievements such as chess or maths champion, higher grades with music, leadership skills eg writing and making speeches etc you stand a good chance, reflecting her true abilities.

His class teacher used the phrase - 'he is a very able mathematician and exceeds FAR above expected standards'. I even included Year 2 SATS results with high attainment through years 4 onwards.

Fingers crossed you won't have to go through this!
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Selection Review or Appeal?

Post by Etienne »

Following a request I've moved this thread to Appeals, leaving a 'shadow' on the Bucks forum.
(We tend to use the Appeals forum to discuss individual cases for review or appeal.)

Scarecrow wrote:So if you are reasonably confident of your daughter's abilities, and can get very good supporting evidence from her school with a clear trajectory of GDS and high achievements such as chess or maths champion, higher grades with music, leadership skills eg writing and making speeches etc you stand a good chance, reflecting her true abilities.
I wouldn't have introduced the term "leadership skills", but I like the other points.

Scarecrow wrote:His class teacher used the phrase - 'he is a very able mathematician and exceeds FAR above expected standards'.
Not often one reads "FAR above expected standards" for a subject like maths. Definitely has the 'wow' factor. :D

Scarecrow wrote:I even included Year 2 SATS results with high attainment through years 4 onwards.
Bucks has a well-structured form for the headteacher to complete, with one section for attainment in Reading, Writing & Maths in Y2, Y3, Y4, & Y5, plus predictions for end of Y6.

Bucks also differs from most other areas that have reviews in that its grammar schools enforce the 'fair, consistent and objective' rule - in other words, an unsuccessful review in Bucks can adversely affect any subsequent appeal parents may wish to make.

Scarecrow wrote: We submitted a review based on the lines of 'Mary's Review Letter' see section E32c. on the Q and A's. Basically there was overwhelming academic and intellectual evidence which made the review successful, and in turn gaining a place at the school.
Thanks for letting us know the outcome. Good to hear! :D
Etienne
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