2017 scoring - Birmingham

[helen0209]

They both sit the same papers. As the B’ham exam favours VR / English more perhaps this is why girls appear to have scored higher as they tend to be more avid readers? That is a really sexist generalisation, and I don’t mean to offend anyone!!

[conroyiwhiwhu]

let me rephrase my question What is the maximum score possible?

From sharing result with Warwickshire, maximum achievable score

VR 150

Numeracy 137

NVR 148

[KenR]

They both sit the same papers. As the B’ham exam favours VR / English more perhaps this is why girls appear to have scored higher as they tend to be more avid readers? That is a really sexist generalisation, and I don’t mean to offend anyone!!

That's no longer correct - the Warwickshire and Birmingham age standardisation methodolgy and weightings are now identical.

This is the quote from the Birmingham Consortium admissions dept:-

We can confirm if two children sat the test (one in Birmingham and the other in Warwick) had the same date of birth and achieved the same raw scores in each section, they would have an identical standardised score.

In addition, all 11+ exam papers are adjusted by CEM post trial to eliminate gender bias - this is standard practice for all 11+ exam compilers.

[helen0209]

Sorry, I thought the original question was do girls and boys within Birmingham sit the same paper or different ones? The other part of the question was why were girls scoring higher, to which I made a very sweeping generalisation about reading. I was not answering anything to do with standardisation of scores between Birmingham and Warwickshire. Apologies if I misunderstood the original question from excitedmumanddad on the previous page.

[excitedmumanddad]

Sorry, I thought the original question was do girls and boys within Birmingham sit the same paper or different ones? The other part of the question was why were girls scoring higher, to which I made a very sweeping generalisation about reading. I was not answering anything to do with standardisation of scores between Birmingham and Warwickshire. Apologies if I misunderstood the original question from excitedmumanddad on the previous page.

Thanks helen0209. Yes you are right. You did answer to my query. Thank you for clarifying.

CHB have seen some huge fluctuations in their cut off scores.....

6 point increase from 234 to 240 in 2013
5 point decrease the very next year to 235 in 2014
A record 8 point jump in 2015 to 243
Then a decrease by 4 to 239 in 2016

I understand there is national demand for CHB. What baffles me is why this fluctuation?? I don't think the others fluctuates as much....

This is what got me thinking about the cut off scores .... from the data, you can never second guess the cut off for CHB as it is not showing a healthy trend (either increasing or decreasing)

[kentish_man]

I'm a long time lurker, but have only just got around to registering and posting. Might as well make it a big one
The board has been a goldmine of info, so am very grateful to those that have posted the last 6 months.
Anyway, the query about the jump in cut-off score reminded me of something recently posted on another thread. Assuming the dates correspond, it might explain one significant jump.

They did used to offer over PAN but about 3 years ago (ish) they stopped and started offering at PAN.
If you look back over some historical data on the top of the forum, you will see one year there was a rise in all the cut off scores, this was when the change was implemented.

So I presume that year there wasn't actually a massive change in the lowest score actually admitted in Sept.
Just a jump up in the initial 1st March offer cut-off - but with a corresponding increase in the number of kids who were subsequently admitted from the waiting list.
Any experts - feel free to put me right if I've misinterpreted that.

Also, I don't know the exact year it corresponds to, but could a noticeable drop in cut-off a few years ago be explained by the addition of an extra 30 places that KE schools introduced prior to introduction of the pupil premium places?
So there was at least one year, where I assume the non PP kids taking the 11+ were quite fortuitous, in there being lots more places available.
So if the 30 extra places were introduced in 2014, and then the pupil premium policy introduced the following year, that could that explain the cut-off score drop, followed by a jump back up again?
If the dates don't correspond, then toss that theory in the bin, and ignore everything I've said!

I suppose there are general trends you can pick out from the noise though.
Firstly, it's got a lot harder to get into all grammar schools over the last 5/6 years. My son's score would have got a CHB offer in 2011, but depending where the cut-offs go this year, he may need the waiting list to get his first choice of FW.
This is the increase I can see in cut-offs since 2011. (Not including HGS)
CHB FW CHG Aston KEHW BV SCG
+10 +10 +13 +4 +12 +5 +11
Given that a lot of these schools now admit 30 more pupils per year than 5 years ago, that makes the increase in entry requirements across the board all the more remarkable. Can it all be put down to increase in numbers of primary school age children, and more thus more taking the test? Or has more awareness of the test, or more outreach by KEF resulted in greater proportion of primary school children taking the test?
Or perhaps more people from outside Birmingham taking the Birmingham test and attending Birmingham grammars?
Or all of the above?

I guess you would expect more volatility in points the further away you get from the average 200 score, as each corresponding point would represent fewer and fewer individual children. Maybe that explains the relatively smaller rise in BV and Aston (Who started close relatively closer to 200) ... rather than any differential in popularity? (If anything, I get the impression the reputation of BV has been on quite an upward path these last 5 years?)
Saying that, those numbers would suggest KEHW and SCG are genuinely more popular now, relative to 5 years ago? (And relative to boys' schools in similar north Birmingham catchment)
Anyone hazard a theory as to why?

I guess CHB and CHG have a certain positive feedback loop, whereby they are seen as the gold standard due to cut-off score, and thus obviously attract many of the very brightest, most academically ambitious each year.
That being said, the headmaster at BV open morning mentioned they have a boy who at BV who got the second highest 11+ score in his year, and of course those schools (e.g. FW) with a bigger intake will inevitably continue further down the 11+ rankings before they are full - even if their top 50% were identical.
But it would be interesting to see over next couple of years, if last year's small drop in CHB cut-off is just random noise and volatility that far away from the median score. Or, if there is no corresponding increase this year, perhaps it is an early indicator of some kind of trend towards convergence across the schools? (At least for boys)

[Dadybear]

All valid points!!!

With the millions being spent on tuition these days you would expect the scores to go up!!!

If you check the birth rates in Birmingham they peak this year!!!

Also people are taking the test from all over the country then if they passed are prepared to move her as you have pointed out!!! Making it even harder for us brummies!!!

Should it be that if you are not registered in Birmingham on the day of test you can't get a place just an Idea!!!

[excitedmumanddad]

I'm a long time lurker, but have only just got around to registering and posting. Might as well make it a big one
The board has been a goldmine of info, so am very grateful to those that have posted the last 6 months.
Anyway, the query about the jump in cut-off score reminded me of something recently posted on another thread. Assuming the dates correspond, it might explain one significant jump.

They did used to offer over PAN but about 3 years ago (ish) they stopped and started offering at PAN.
If you look back over some historical data on the top of the forum, you will see one year there was a rise in all the cut off scores, this was when the change was implemented.

So I presume that year there wasn't actually a massive change in the lowest score actually admitted in Sept.
Just a jump up in the initial 1st March offer cut-off - but with a corresponding increase in the number of kids who were subsequently admitted from the waiting list.
Any experts - feel free to put me right if I've misinterpreted that.

Also, I don't know the exact year it corresponds to, but could a noticeable drop in cut-off a few years ago be explained by the addition of an extra 30 places that KE schools introduced prior to introduction of the pupil premium places?
So there was at least one year, where I assume the non PP kids taking the 11+ were quite fortuitous, in there being lots more places available.
So if the 30 extra places were introduced in 2014, and then the pupil premium policy introduced the following year, that could that explain the cut-off score drop, followed by a jump back up again?
If the dates don't correspond, then toss that theory in the bin, and ignore everything I've said!

I suppose there are general trends you can pick out from the noise though.
Firstly, it's got a lot harder to get into all grammar schools over the last 5/6 years. My son's score would have got a CHB offer in 2011, but depending where the cut-offs go this year, he may need the waiting list to get his first choice of FW.
This is the increase I can see in cut-offs since 2011. (Not including HGS)
CHB FW CHG Aston KEHW BV SCG
+10 +10 +13 +4 +12 +5 +11
Given that a lot of these schools now admit 30 more pupils per year than 5 years ago, that makes the increase in entry requirements across the board all the more remarkable. Can it all be put down to increase in numbers of primary school age children, and more thus more taking the test? Or has more awareness of the test, or more outreach by KEF resulted in greater proportion of primary school children taking the test?
Or perhaps more people from outside Birmingham taking the Birmingham test and attending Birmingham grammars?
Or all of the above?

I guess you would expect more volatility in points the further away you get from the average 200 score, as each corresponding point would represent fewer and fewer individual children. Maybe that explains the relatively smaller rise in BV and Aston (Who started close relatively closer to 200) ... rather than any differential in popularity? (If anything, I get the impression the reputation of BV has been on quite an upward path these last 5 years?)
Saying that, those numbers would suggest KEHW and SCG are genuinely more popular now, relative to 5 years ago? (And relative to boys' schools in similar north Birmingham catchment)
Anyone hazard a theory as to why?

I guess CHB and CHG have a certain positive feedback loop, whereby they are seen as the gold standard due to cut-off score, and thus obviously attract many of the very brightest, most academically ambitious each year.
That being said, the headmaster at BV open morning mentioned they have a boy who at BV who got the second highest 11+ score in his year, and of course those schools (e.g. FW) with a bigger intake will inevitably continue further down the 11+ rankings before they are full - even if their top 50% were identical.
But it would be interesting to see over next couple of years, if last year's small drop in CHB cut-off is just random noise and volatility that far away from the median score. Or, if there is no corresponding increase this year, perhaps it is an early indicator of some kind of trend towards convergence across the schools? (At least for boys)

Thanks kentish_man. Pupil premium and PAN perhaps are reasons for this. There appears to be a increase for the 2013 entry (perhaps PAN?), then a significant drop for the 2014 entry (perhaps additional places for PP) (with the exception of BV (remained same) and SCG (increased)). The significant jump in 2015 perhaps corresponds to PP being introduced? and a subsequent correction in 2016. The correction seems to have impacted CHB (decrease by 4) more than other schools... CHG increasing by 4, 5ways increasing by 1, BV increasing by 1, KEHW increasing by 4)). Thanks again for attempting to drive some reason into this...

[kentish_man]

Should it be that if you are not registered in Birmingham on the day of test you can't get a place just an Idea!!!

With my username, I should probably point out I've lived in Brum for 14 years. I wouldn't want to be chased off this forum by an angry crowd with pitchforks and flaming torches

Anyway, that restriction (However much it might appeal) would be a difficult one to police I think.
I heard somewhere (Although can't find anything official looking to back it up) that a significant chunk of Fiveways' intake come from north Worcestershire residents.
How do you stop somebody from Worcestershire going to FW, or a Solihull resident from going to Camp Hill, when they might only live 1 or 2 miles from a Birmingham grammar school.
But then allow someone from north Birmingham. (Who happens to fall under Birmingham LA, but may live 7 or 8 miles away from the school)
I also know plenty of north Birmingham/Sutton residents whose children took the Walsall test, so I guess it can work both ways.

[hughese]

It did used to be Birmingham only, but that is going back a long time. I know I couldn't sit it as a child as a Sandwell resident, but some of my classmates lived in Birmingham and sat it.