Primary (independent) outside our grammar area?

[MSD]

Yes, ours went to a mediocre State primary too and gained a place. In their years they only sent one other child to grammar, if i remember correctly.

However, both my children had private 11+ tuition.

[Rooroo]

Ok, so the child is currently in a state school, KS 1, and we're on the Birmingham/Solihull border. The (large) state school publishes their outcomes to current families, and last year no children went on to the Birmingham grammars. I also know other people with older children in the same school who are now looking into the 11+ and getting no support from the school. We briefly considered tutoring but for a variety of reasons think we would prefer private primary. Both School A and B publish their outcomes too so we've had a look at those, though I certainly agree that it's cohort-dependent.
I suppose I'm just asking whether it's a risk to send a child (whe you know you want them to at least try the 11+) to a school that isn't in a grammar area. Will the school be less focused or aware of what is necessary in terms of teaching, preparing them, etc?
We really wouldn't want to pay for both tutoring and private primary.

I am not surprised with that outcome YeomanOftheGuard, as State schools are not known for preparing children for 11+ exams outside of their normal curriculum. You will find that most children preparing for 11+ in Birmingham take the private tutoring route rather than just relying on their respective school. Yes, there are independent prep school, who do prepare children, but from my experience of the process, and knowing some tutors, independent prep school children are more likely to have further private tuition as compared to state schools, and more likely to gain a place too.

Few years back, I believe more than half of the intake for CHB and CHG was from private sector. I remember receiving this information from a trusted source few years back, requested under FOI.

More than half of CHB entrants were from Indies - mainly just Hallfield, Blue Coats, West House with a few from Norfolk House and Ruckleigh's .
Just under half of CHG entrants were from Indies - mainly just Hallfield, Blue Coats, EHS and some from Ruckleigh's too.

Of the other pupils, they were mainly from very good state schools like Harborne, Hall Green, King David, Moseley CE etc. and not many inner state schools featured in the list at all.

As someone who has been through the process twice with my children, I would recommend looking at hiring a specialist 11+ tutor, if you have the necessary resources available, and, of course, not the time or knowledge to DIY.

That's interesting MSD. I wonder how though how much it is the actual prep school rather than lots of tuition and what parts of the primary curriculum they miss out on to focus on the 11 plus in school.

[KenR]

Ok, so the child is currently in a state school, KS 1, and we're on the Birmingham/Solihull border. The (large) state school publishes their outcomes to current families, and last year no children went on to the Birmingham grammars. I also know other people with older children in the same school who are now looking into the 11+ and getting no support from the school. We briefly considered tutoring but for a variety of reasons think we would prefer private primary. Both School A and B publish their outcomes too so we've had a look at those, though I certainly agree that it's cohort-dependent.
I suppose I'm just asking whether it's a risk to send a child (whe you know you want them to at least try the 11+) to a school that isn't in a grammar area. Will the school be less focused or aware of what is necessary in terms of teaching, preparing them, etc?
We really wouldn't want to pay for both tutoring and private primary.

I think you need to be more specific about the area you are in and the specific schools you are referring to. If you don't wish to be specific on the general forum then by all means send me a PM and I will try to answer. Interesting that we to live close to the Birmingham/Solihull Border in Wythall which is in Worcestershire so I know a bit about some of those specific schools. Please be aware though that Solihull comprehensive and primary schools are in high demand so it very hard to get a place unless you are truly very close to the specific school in question.

[MSD]

That's interesting MSD. I wonder how though how much it is the actual prep school rather than lots of tuition and what parts of the primary curriculum they miss out on to focus on the 11 plus in school.

Hard to say but I personally think it's more down to tuition and being able to secure a good tutor, who knows the system well and has a good track record. I was absolutely amazed looking at this year's results for one of the Birmingham tutors. Out of the 40 odd children they tutored, 223 was the minimum score, more than half scored 250+, and quite a few scored 270+; 100% success and astonishing figures really! And, we still hear claims from head teachers that CEM is tutor-proof! On a lighter note, it looks like half of the CHB and CHG 2019 entry will be filled with children from that tuition centre

My honest advice to potential parents is that if you can afford the services of a good tutor, and you do not have the time or the knowledge to do it yourself, do look out for a good tutor and do not disadvantage your children in this very competitive 11+ world - you will be surprised to see the amount of children receiving professional help outside of the school. Just the Autumn mock of a very popular centre in Shirley had nearly 1000 children sitting it and that's only one of the many mock centres available around Birmingham.

[helen0209]

The (large) state school publishes their outcomes to current families, and last year no children went on to the Birmingham grammars.
Both School A and B publish their outcomes too so we've had a look at those, though I certainly agree that it's cohort-dependent.

I'm genuinely surprised that these outcomes are published when state schools are not allowed to assist with 11+ prep, and don't understand why they would want to publish how many went to which school. It is not necessarily a reflection on the school, because the curriculum is so different to the content of the 11+.
The school my DS's went too sound similar to MSD and Rooroo, with this year being an exception where 3 gained a GS place - 2 years prior it was 1 as was the year before. It is a one form intake which would have a small bearing.

Edited to add, children may have sat the 11+ and achieved a score that would have qualified for a place, but decided for whatever reason to choose a different school which may be why there were not any going.

[Rooroo]

That's interesting MSD. I wonder how though how much it is the actual prep school rather than lots of tuition and what parts of the primary curriculum they miss out on to focus on the 11 plus in school.

Hard to say but I personally think it's more down to tuition and being able to secure a good tutor, who knows the system well and has a good track record. I was absolutely amazed looking at this year's results for one of the Birmingham tutors. Out of the 40 odd children they tutored, 223 was the minimum score, more than half scored 250+, and quite a few scored 270+; 100% success and astonishing figures really! And, we still hear claims from head teachers that CEM is tutor-proof! On a lighter note, it looks like half of the CHB and CHG 2019 entry will be filled with children from that tuition centre

My honest advice to potential parents is that if you can afford the services of a good tutor, and you do not have the time or the knowledge to do it yourself, do look out for a good tutor and do not disadvantage your children in this very competitive 11+ world - you will be surprised to see the amount of children receiving professional help outside of the school. Just the Autumn mock of a very popular centre in Shirley had nearly 1000 children sitting it and that's only one of the many mock centres available around Birmingham.

MSD where did you see this information on the tutor? Would love to know what centre and what area this is?

[mitasol]

You should also be aware that tutors may only accept pupils they judge will pass. In which case it is hardly surprising if they have many qualifiers.

[MSD]

Absolutely Mitasol, agreed! I am sure they have rigorous testing in place before taking them on. But, in this instance, they appear to have around 25 students in the top 1 or 2% of all cohort taking the test, which I thought was quite commendable. And I wouldn't be surprised a few in top 10 too. Mitasol, I do also believe a vast majority of children out of the 6000 had some sort of professional help, but unfortunately we don't see all doing as well and I suspect most of these tutors only take the ones they think will pass. Again, I may be completely wrong in my assumption.

Rooroo, tutor is based in Birmingham, I believe, but I am not in a position to give out their details without their permission - sorry

[Rooroo]

Absolutely Mitasol, agreed! I am sure they have rigorous testing in place before taking them on. But, in this instance, they appear to have around 25 students in the top 1 or 2% of all cohort taking the test, which I thought was quite commendable. And I wouldn't be surprised a few in top 10 too. Mitasol, I do also believe a vast majority of children out of the 6000 had some sort of professional help, but unfortunately we don't see all doing as well and I suspect most of these tutors only take the ones they think will pass. Again, I may be completely wrong in my assumption.

Rooroo, tutor is based in Birmingham, I believe, but I am not in a position to give out their details without their permission - sorry

Totally understand. Just wondered if it was on a public business page or website that they had released such data as you said tuition centre.

[MSD]

Yes, they have all the figures on their website with a breakdown of score, for last 5 years