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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:22 pm
Posts: 35
Hello,

Please can someone explain, for Westcliff and Southend girls grammar schools :

a. If a parents live in the ss0 to ss9 area (in catchment for these schools), Is there any requirement as to how long do they have to live there (inside catchment) after entry in to the school?

b. What are the documents required as proof of residence? Would Tenancy Agreement do?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:25 am
Posts: 24
As far as I know you need to be living there by the end of the first week of December (do check with the Southend Council about the exact date).
You would need to have a valid & legal Tenancy Agreement for a minimum of 6 months or the solicitor's letter about exchange of contracts.
Child benefit letter for that address (if receiving it) will be required as well as local Council Tax Bill with your name on it - the names on all the documents need to match the name of the parent who signs the application form for the secondary school at the end of October (you would need to submit the documents by the time you move into the postcodes SS0-SS9).
Good luck and know that the council can randomly check if your child sleeps at the new address Mon-Fri (even if separated from the other parent) or make any other checks which they deem necessary to ascertain the validity of the residency claim. I also think you would need to remain in the area until the child starts year 7.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:41 pm
Posts: 10564
Location: Essex
proud_parent wrote:
Hello,

Please can someone explain, for Westcliff and Southend girls grammar schools :

a. If a parents live in the ss0 to ss9 area (in catchment for these schools), how long do they have to live there (inside catchment) after entry in to the school?

b. What are the documents required as proof of residence? Would Tenancy Agreement do?


Parents who provide false
information in support of their
application for a school place
Southend-on-Sea Borough Council takes
very seriously any attempt to gain unfair
advantage in the admissions process
by giving false information (for example
providing a false address).
In relation to any application for a school
place the Councilmay ask a sample of
applicants to provide proof of their home
address. This is likely to include;

UK driving licence;
„ copy of the child benefit letter (see
page 11 if child benefit letter cannot be
provided);
„ council tax notification;
„ two utility bills dated within the last 6
months (gas, electricity, water or landline
phone)
„ Tenancy Agreement
„ Exchange of contracts

If a parent claims to be renting a property,
a rental agreement / lease arranged
through a letting agency or estate agent
will be requested together with written
evidence that it is the child’s normal place
of residence. Informal letting agreements
will not be accepted.
If, in addition to the rented property, the
child’s parents also own another property
and have previously resided in that
property, the Council will consider carefully
whether the application for a school
place has been made in good faith. In this
situation consideration will be given to
whether the rented property or the other
property should be regarded as the child’s
normal place of residence.
The use of an address of a friend or relative
would not be regarded as the normal place of
residence. Please be aware that an address
used for before and after-school childcare
arrangements will not be considered.
Places cannot be allocated on the basis of
intended future changes of address, unless
the move has taken place and confirmed
with the School Admissions Team by 19th
January 2018 at the latest and the relevant
proof has been provided:
„ a letter from your solicitor confirming
exchange of contracts and completion
date, or
„ a copy of a rental agreement for at least
6 months signed by both the tenant and
the landlord. A rental agreement should
satisfy the School Admissions Team
that it will be the child’s normal place of
residence (at least covering the period
that your child starts school).
The School Admissions Team takes steps to
verify your child’s home address either by
cross referencing information held by your
child’s current school (if in Southend) or by
requesting that you provide proof of address.
Checks will also be made with other
departments in the Council and, where it
is suspected that the family live outside of
Southend, contact will be made with the
relevant Local Authority.
Where there is reasonable doubt as to
the validity of a home address, the School
Admissions Team reserves the right to take
additional checking measures including, in
some cases, unannounced home visits.
If, after offers of school places have been
made, or the child has started at the said
school, it is established that fraudulent or
intentionally misleading information has
been provided in order to gain a place at a
secondary school, the School Admissions
Team will withdraw any school place offered.
If an offer of a school place is withdrawn the
parent can submit a fresh application.
All parents must provide proof of change
of address if they move any time between
September and July. Change of address
affects the ranking of the application. Not
disclosing a change of address constitutes
‘misleading information’.


We live in the Southend Borough Council area and I can't remember having been asked for spoonfuls of address during the admissions process for any of our three DC. If you are currently in the priority area but in the Essex CC postcodes, I don't know whether Southend Admissions (who handle the press for all state schools in the borough) expect Essex to have confirmed the home address before they pass on applicants' details.

I had a look, but couldn't see anything about remaining in the priority admissions area once the school place has been allocated, although both schools have a clause about places being withdrawn if they have been obtained fraudulently. In the SBC Secondary School Admissions booklet it mentions that any changes of address at any time during the application year (September to July) must be notified to the council.
http://www.southend.gov.uk/downloads/file/4869/secondary_admission_booklet_201819


If you already know this far in advance that you will need to move away from the locality shortly after your DD starts at the school, it might be an idea to contact SHSG / WHSG or SBC admissions now to explain your circumstances and check how your move might affect your DD's application? It would be a shame to risk losing the place.

_________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:46 am
Posts: 5
ToadMum wrote:
proud_parent wrote:
Hello,

Please can someone explain, for Westcliff and Southend girls grammar schools :

a. If a parents live in the ss0 to ss9 area (in catchment for these schools), how long do they have to live there (inside catchment) after entry in to the school?

b. What are the documents required as proof of residence? Would Tenancy Agreement do?


Parents who provide false
information in support of their
application for a school place
Southend-on-Sea Borough Council takes
very seriously any attempt to gain unfair
advantage in the admissions process
by giving false information (for example
providing a false address).
In relation to any application for a school
place the Councilmay ask a sample of
applicants to provide proof of their home
address. This is likely to include;

UK driving licence;
„ copy of the child benefit letter (see
page 11 if child benefit letter cannot be
provided);
„ council tax notification;
„ two utility bills dated within the last 6
months (gas, electricity, water or landline
phone)
„ Tenancy Agreement
„ Exchange of contracts

If a parent claims to be renting a property,
a rental agreement / lease arranged
through a letting agency or estate agent
will be requested together with written
evidence that it is the child’s normal place
of residence. Informal letting agreements
will not be accepted.
If, in addition to the rented property, the
child’s parents also own another property
and have previously resided in that
property, the Council will consider carefully
whether the application for a school
place has been made in good faith. In this
situation consideration will be given to
whether the rented property or the other
property should be regarded as the child’s
normal place of residence.
The use of an address of a friend or relative
would not be regarded as the normal place of
residence. Please be aware that an address
used for before and after-school childcare
arrangements will not be considered.
Places cannot be allocated on the basis of
intended future changes of address, unless
the move has taken place and confirmed
with the School Admissions Team by 19th
January 2018 at the latest and the relevant
proof has been provided:
„ a letter from your solicitor confirming
exchange of contracts and completion
date, or
„ a copy of a rental agreement for at least
6 months signed by both the tenant and
the landlord. A rental agreement should
satisfy the School Admissions Team
that it will be the child’s normal place of
residence (at least covering the period
that your child starts school).
The School Admissions Team takes steps to
verify your child’s home address either by
cross referencing information held by your
child’s current school (if in Southend) or by
requesting that you provide proof of address.
Checks will also be made with other
departments in the Council and, where it
is suspected that the family live outside of
Southend, contact will be made with the
relevant Local Authority.
Where there is reasonable doubt as to
the validity of a home address, the School
Admissions Team reserves the right to take
additional checking measures including, in
some cases, unannounced home visits.
If, after offers of school places have been
made, or the child has started at the said
school, it is established that fraudulent or
intentionally misleading information has
been provided in order to gain a place at a
secondary school, the School Admissions
Team will withdraw any school place offered.
If an offer of a school place is withdrawn the
parent can submit a fresh application.
All parents must provide proof of change
of address if they move any time between
September and July. Change of address
affects the ranking of the application. Not
disclosing a change of address constitutes
‘misleading information’.


We live in the Southend Borough Council area and I can't remember having been asked for spoonfuls of address during the admissions process for any of our three DC. If you are currently in the priority area but in the Essex CC postcodes, I don't know whether Southend Admissions (who handle the press for all state schools in the borough) expect Essex to have confirmed the home address before they pass on applicants' details.

I had a look, but couldn't see anything about remaining in the priority admissions area once the school place has been allocated, although both schools have a clause about places being withdrawn if they have been obtained fraudulently. In the SBC Secondary School Admissions booklet it mentions that any changes of address at any time during the application year (September to July) must be notified to the council.
http://www.southend.gov.uk/downloads/file/4869/secondary_admission_booklet_201819


If you already know this far in advance that you will need to move away from the locality shortly after your DD starts at the school, it might be an idea to contact SHSG / WHSG or SBC admissions now to explain your circumstances and check how your move might affect your DD's application? It would be a shame to risk losing the place.


Thats very detailed information. We are considering moving from Essex to within catchment of Westcliff and intend to live there until DC completes school education (at least). We are on a rolling tenancy , can move with a month's notice.

What is the last date (is it specified clearly) by which the move needs to be completed. It does say, we need to inform by 19th January 2018.

Do we apply to Essex council now and then , maybe, in November/December, move - and inform Essex and Southend councils in writing?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:28 pm
Posts: 3030
I think if you need clarification of the information above you would be best calling them and getting advice specific to your situation then you can't "get it wrong".

Whilst you can move home on a months notice would your DC need to move primary school? This might not be straightforward.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:41 pm
Posts: 10564
Location: Essex
KB wrote:
I think if you need clarification of the information above you would be best calling them and getting advice specific to your situation then you can't "get it wrong".

Whilst you can move home on a months notice would your DC need to move primary school? This might not be straightforward.


'In catchment for Westcliff' takes in places which are more convenient and less convenient for the school. The area within a mile or so of the school (so easy walking distance) is mainly residential. If you need to use the train yourselves to travel to London, then e.g. between the school and Chalkwell station is a compromise between your walking distance and your DD's (but obviously your budget would dictate options to some extent). If you are going tto move for the school anyway, I would be tempted to move to close by, or at least within a simple bus journey for your DD, unless, of course, you fall in love with somewhere like Great Wakering, which is not on a direct bus route and doesn't have a railway station.

Re places in year 6 in local primary schools, you may just have to settle for what is available and possibly put up with one not exactly on your doorstep for a couple of terms, as a trade off for moving to somewhere to live which will be convenient for the next five or seven years of your DD's school career.

_________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:28 pm
Posts: 3030
Maybe if you are renting rather than buying and therefore more able to move again next summer you might decide initially to locate for a reasonable primary and then move again to be best placed for secondary ( within the secondary catchment area boundary of course)?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:47 am
Posts: 13
I called both Essex (who control admission for SS4 - SS8) and Southend (who control SS0 - SS3 and SS9) councils schools admissions team on this today to ask.

They said you have to have signed tenancy agreement and proof of a move by 1 December and to tell them as soon as you have moved. To be sure, you should have a 12 month tenancy agreement and you of course need to be actually living there and not just pretending to do so, and they do come and check.

So a question to forum members..... would you consider it ethical/ the right thing to do to move into catchment to a rental property to guarantee a place and to try out what its like to live there?! By this I mean keeping your old out of catchment house that is perfectly commutable and seeing how you feel about it the new location. If you don't like it after the 12 months but your son has started at the school, you can then move back to your own home somewhere out of catchment. In your opinion, is this unethical, or is this perfectly ok because you do intend to genuinely up sticks and move there for at least 12 months? But in reality, at the end of those 12 months could well move back to the home that you own somewhere else that's not in catchment?

Thoughts?? Playing the system at the expense of others, or just doing the right thing by your child within the actual rules of the system?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:31 pm
Posts: 40
FNHM wrote:
I called both Essex (who control admission for SS4 - SS8) and Southend (who control SS0 - SS3 and SS9) councils schools admissions team on this today to ask.

They said you have to have signed tenancy agreement and proof of a move by 1 December and to tell them as soon as you have moved. To be sure, you should have a 12 month tenancy agreement and you of course need to be actually living there and not just pretending to do so, and they do come and check.

So a question to forum members..... would you consider it ethical/ the right thing to do to move into catchment to a rental property to guarantee a place and to try out what its like to live there?! By this I mean keeping your old out of catchment house that is perfectly commutable and seeing how you feel about it the new location. If you don't like it after the 12 months but your son has started at the school, you can then move back to your own home somewhere out of catchment. In your opinion, is this unethical, or is this perfectly ok because you do intend to genuinely up sticks and move there for at least 12 months? But in reality, at the end of those 12 months could well move back to the home that you own somewhere else that's not in catchment?

Thoughts?? Playing the system at the expense of others, or just doing the right thing by your child within the actual rules of the system?


Are you perhaps seeking guidance for your own ethical position, or maybe another's?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:29 pm
Posts: 106
FNHM wrote:
I called both Essex (who control admission for SS4 - SS8) and Southend (who control SS0 - SS3 and SS9) councils schools admissions team on this today to ask.

They said you have to have signed tenancy agreement and proof of a move by 1 December and to tell them as soon as you have moved. To be sure, you should have a 12 month tenancy agreement and you of course need to be actually living there and not just pretending to do so, and they do come and check.

So a question to forum members..... would you consider it ethical/ the right thing to do to move into catchment to a rental property to guarantee a place and to try out what its like to live there?! By this I mean keeping your old out of catchment house that is perfectly commutable and seeing how you feel about it the new location. If you don't like it after the 12 months but your son has started at the school, you can then move back to your own home somewhere out of catchment. In your opinion, is this unethical, or is this perfectly ok because you do intend to genuinely up sticks and move there for at least 12 months? But in reality, at the end of those 12 months could well move back to the home that you own somewhere else that's not in catchment?

Thoughts?? Playing the system at the expense of others, or just doing the right thing by your child within the actual rules of the system?

As things stand, you'd be likely pushing out OC candidate who was not willing/couldn't afford to do the same. If the rules allow this, seems perfectly fine to me. If they didn't want this to happen, they could easily change the rules.
And if there is any ethical question around this, then it would be not on your side but on the school's one that it gives IC candidates unfair advantage over OC candidates, in my opinion.


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