OFF TOPIC - but Brentwood exam this coming weekend, any tips
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Brentwood
Hello there. I am sorry I have not been back to this site since the results were announced, I have been away on business and just sooo utterly busy.
Anyway, the difficult choice we could have faced did not materialise as my son missed the cut for KEGS, albeit not by much.
We could appeal/go on the waiting list, but we are so happy with the Brentwood choice that we won't. In fact it is like a weight was lifted off our shoulders. My son and I were were so very pro-Brentwood from the first time we went to the school. We were made so welcome and the place has a fantastic feel about it. Even my wife, who was focused mainly on maximising our son’s academic success is over the moon.
Of course the facilities at Brentwood are second to none and the class sizes are small, all of which is very important, but there is more to it that that. I know from speaking to the teachers, and the Head in particular, that they absolutely want my son to grow and succeed at everything he does, not just passing exams.
Do not get me wrong I am not saying that KEGS is an exams factory, but I just didn't get that feeling at all there. To be fair I had much less contact with KEGS.
I hope the many (and I am sure justified) KEGS-cheerleaders out there do not take umbrage at my comments and I do not mean to be negative about KEGS, I am sure it is right for their sons, but Brentwood is definitely right for my son, I know it.
As to my son's results, well, it was as expected, he did brilliantly well in maths, about 90%, really well in English, somewhere in the 80's, and crashed and burned in VR, I think it was 59%.
I had tried to drill him about not wasting time on difficult questions and going for “the low hanging fruitâ€
Anyway, the difficult choice we could have faced did not materialise as my son missed the cut for KEGS, albeit not by much.
We could appeal/go on the waiting list, but we are so happy with the Brentwood choice that we won't. In fact it is like a weight was lifted off our shoulders. My son and I were were so very pro-Brentwood from the first time we went to the school. We were made so welcome and the place has a fantastic feel about it. Even my wife, who was focused mainly on maximising our son’s academic success is over the moon.
Of course the facilities at Brentwood are second to none and the class sizes are small, all of which is very important, but there is more to it that that. I know from speaking to the teachers, and the Head in particular, that they absolutely want my son to grow and succeed at everything he does, not just passing exams.
Do not get me wrong I am not saying that KEGS is an exams factory, but I just didn't get that feeling at all there. To be fair I had much less contact with KEGS.
I hope the many (and I am sure justified) KEGS-cheerleaders out there do not take umbrage at my comments and I do not mean to be negative about KEGS, I am sure it is right for their sons, but Brentwood is definitely right for my son, I know it.
As to my son's results, well, it was as expected, he did brilliantly well in maths, about 90%, really well in English, somewhere in the 80's, and crashed and burned in VR, I think it was 59%.
I had tried to drill him about not wasting time on difficult questions and going for “the low hanging fruitâ€
Sounds like you have made an informed and great choice for your son Tony.
Id also like to reinforce what you said about the VR being so incredibly important. My friends son got very good marks in the English and Maths papers but crashed and burned on the VR, losing any chance of a grammar place. Fortunately, he still got into a "good school" (non Grammar) but it wasnt their first choice for him.
My child is yet to sit the exam but Ive learnt an awful lot from the experiences of others posted here and the importance of VR is a good example. Most of the prep Im doing with my daughter is VR work as its not touched upon in state schools - fortunately she does seem naturally talented at it, but we are only working on some basics at present
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Id also like to reinforce what you said about the VR being so incredibly important. My friends son got very good marks in the English and Maths papers but crashed and burned on the VR, losing any chance of a grammar place. Fortunately, he still got into a "good school" (non Grammar) but it wasnt their first choice for him.
My child is yet to sit the exam but Ive learnt an awful lot from the experiences of others posted here and the importance of VR is a good example. Most of the prep Im doing with my daughter is VR work as its not touched upon in state schools - fortunately she does seem naturally talented at it, but we are only working on some basics at present
.Thanks for the great feedback. All along I have been keen to record my views and experiences as I know I would have (and in fact did) benefit(ed) from others in the same position.
Good luck for next year. I would say one other thing, once your DD has had some good experience with test papers, do put them under time pressure because that is what they will face in the exam.
Tony
Good luck for next year. I would say one other thing, once your DD has had some good experience with test papers, do put them under time pressure because that is what they will face in the exam.
Tony
How interesting! My son also crashed and burned on the VR. I was shocked and I must admit am still finding the finality of the whole experience difficult to come to terms with.
Although his Maths and English scores were not as strong as I had hoped it was the VR that has made the difference between a grammar place & the comp he has been assigned. His position on the waiting list for WHSB means he has a possible chance of a place over the next weeks/months. I am trying not to build my hopes up as I feel already like I've been hit with a sledgehammer.
Tony, well done to your son for securing his place at Brentwood. I was there recently when my daughter swam in a gala there. I was extremely impressed; the facilities are second to none. My daughter exclaimed the pool changing rooms were the cleanest she'd ever encountered!
Good luck!
Although his Maths and English scores were not as strong as I had hoped it was the VR that has made the difference between a grammar place & the comp he has been assigned. His position on the waiting list for WHSB means he has a possible chance of a place over the next weeks/months. I am trying not to build my hopes up as I feel already like I've been hit with a sledgehammer.
Tony, well done to your son for securing his place at Brentwood. I was there recently when my daughter swam in a gala there. I was extremely impressed; the facilities are second to none. My daughter exclaimed the pool changing rooms were the cleanest she'd ever encountered!
Good luck!
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essex-mum18
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FlightyRachel
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 2:57 pm
- Location: Essex
Thanks for your thoughts Tony! I've followed your journey with interest, as well as a little envy that you have such a lot of choice!
The system is a bit rubbish. I personally think the day the grammars took the 11+ out of primary schools and 'in house', they slammed the door for a lot of 'ordinary' bright kids. It's all a bit of a game now, and those with a bit of insider knowledge are definitely at an advantage. You are right to say that this site is SO useful for passing on that knowledge, to those of us who otherwise wouldn't have access these things. My little guy similarly cocked up his VR, he told me there were too many code questions lol, but I feel that he had to work for this unaided by his school, which really took no interest at all in his future school choices.
I am also sure you've made the right choice for your lad. I was amazed at the quite emotional responses visiting the different schools evoked in me and ds. (We just hated WHSB!) In the end, you need a school that suits your child, and is not chosen for reasons of kudos or social aspiration. And that is why I shall be relaxing in 2 years time when my averagely able dd applies for the local comp!
Enjoy Brentwood.
Rachel
The system is a bit rubbish. I personally think the day the grammars took the 11+ out of primary schools and 'in house', they slammed the door for a lot of 'ordinary' bright kids. It's all a bit of a game now, and those with a bit of insider knowledge are definitely at an advantage. You are right to say that this site is SO useful for passing on that knowledge, to those of us who otherwise wouldn't have access these things. My little guy similarly cocked up his VR, he told me there were too many code questions lol, but I feel that he had to work for this unaided by his school, which really took no interest at all in his future school choices.
I am also sure you've made the right choice for your lad. I was amazed at the quite emotional responses visiting the different schools evoked in me and ds. (We just hated WHSB!) In the end, you need a school that suits your child, and is not chosen for reasons of kudos or social aspiration. And that is why I shall be relaxing in 2 years time when my averagely able dd applies for the local comp!
Enjoy Brentwood.
Rachel
Silver29, thanks for your comments (this is all getting like a bit of a love-in, isn't it! 
) and I wish your son the best with WHSB.
The rejection is horrible, but I think you have to say they only have a certain number of places and so many kids are tutored from a very young age and "know the system" and so your son should not take it personally.
Thanks also to essex-mum18 and FlightyRachel, I appreciate the sincerity of your comments.
As far as primary schools are concerned, my son's primary school is brilliant, really brilliant, and I have no complaints, BUT and this is a BIG BUT, the headmaster, who I must say is a star and a bit of a local celebrity (went to Highgrove etc) shocked me when I asked about grammar and independent schools...
...he said he didn't agree with them, thought they were divisive in the community and did not agree with the 11+...
Now his views are his and I even have some sympathy with his views on the 11+ but he was basically giving me a knock back.... he said he would help, but never really did, and if it was not for me going to him, there would never even had been a conversation about grammars or independent...
...if you're watching (hope not
) then please do comment, perhaps you think I am being too harsh, but I have heard the same from lots of other people who say many many primary school teachers (perhaps with a left of centre leaning) just do not want to help their pupils apply for grammar and independent schools, never even mention them and in some cases are obstructive (not that this is the case with me)...
Our local primary is amazing, probably one of the best in Essex, the reason we bought this house in the first place was because we wanted our children to go there... something he was also critical of when I mentioned it in passing...
Hmmm... cat/pigeons?
T
) and I wish your son the best with WHSB.The rejection is horrible, but I think you have to say they only have a certain number of places and so many kids are tutored from a very young age and "know the system" and so your son should not take it personally.
Thanks also to essex-mum18 and FlightyRachel, I appreciate the sincerity of your comments.
As far as primary schools are concerned, my son's primary school is brilliant, really brilliant, and I have no complaints, BUT and this is a BIG BUT, the headmaster, who I must say is a star and a bit of a local celebrity (went to Highgrove etc) shocked me when I asked about grammar and independent schools...
...he said he didn't agree with them, thought they were divisive in the community and did not agree with the 11+...
Now his views are his and I even have some sympathy with his views on the 11+ but he was basically giving me a knock back.... he said he would help, but never really did, and if it was not for me going to him, there would never even had been a conversation about grammars or independent...
...if you're watching (hope not
) then please do comment, perhaps you think I am being too harsh, but I have heard the same from lots of other people who say many many primary school teachers (perhaps with a left of centre leaning) just do not want to help their pupils apply for grammar and independent schools, never even mention them and in some cases are obstructive (not that this is the case with me)...Our local primary is amazing, probably one of the best in Essex, the reason we bought this house in the first place was because we wanted our children to go there... something he was also critical of when I mentioned it in passing...
Hmmm... cat/pigeons?
T
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FlightyRachel
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 2:57 pm
- Location: Essex
This is my view, fwiw... I wouldn't expect a state primary to help with the common entrance exam, nor have much knowledge of how to go about applying to a private school. It would be nice if us plebs were encouraged to go for scholarships, but I understand that state schools don't have much of an interest in pursuing this. But the 11+ is a different matter. if a member of staff is idealogically opposed to selection, imo they should chose to work in a non selective authority, like Thurrock, or Suffolk, rather than play out their politics in Essex classrooms. I feel it is their duty to help children achieve all they can academically.
But the reality is that most primary schools don't see it as their role to encourage or enable children to get into grammar school.There is one particular member of staff at ds's school, famously 'anti', and I also know of many parents put off applying for grammar by that subtle 'won't they be happier with their friends/will they cope/ they shouldn't need coaching' routine that teachers employ to lower expectations. Ds went along to some 'practise' sessions in September and had a try at the 3 papers at another school around the same time (arranged by school). While I appreciated the effort, I feel that it's woefully inadequate. I compare how some private schools prepare the children and laugh hollowly.
As I said, in the days when all children took the 11+ in their primary school, and were then ranked academically by the head, I feel that things were fairer, all be it more open to abuse.
In state education, the last great uncatered for group is the very bright. My ds was identified as g&t in reception and to date, this has resulted in him being sent on a summer school.. for needlework.
But the reality is that most primary schools don't see it as their role to encourage or enable children to get into grammar school.There is one particular member of staff at ds's school, famously 'anti', and I also know of many parents put off applying for grammar by that subtle 'won't they be happier with their friends/will they cope/ they shouldn't need coaching' routine that teachers employ to lower expectations. Ds went along to some 'practise' sessions in September and had a try at the 3 papers at another school around the same time (arranged by school). While I appreciated the effort, I feel that it's woefully inadequate. I compare how some private schools prepare the children and laugh hollowly.
As I said, in the days when all children took the 11+ in their primary school, and were then ranked academically by the head, I feel that things were fairer, all be it more open to abuse.
In state education, the last great uncatered for group is the very bright. My ds was identified as g&t in reception and to date, this has resulted in him being sent on a summer school.. for needlework.
I feel it is a shame for a parent to feel they have put their child through an experience that has done them no good, even harmed them. The 11+ exam is a terribly flawed one for differentiating future academic ability, especially now that parents invest so much time, money and energy in getting their children to jump through the right hoops, at the right time and in the right way. The success to failure ratio is bound to be 1:5 or 1:6 in the Essex grammars, before any mark has even been allocated.
I always remember, way back when I was at school, the way my P.E. teacher kept the pupil who was last to get changed in at playtime as a punishment. I remember thinking even if we were all super-quick, someone would still have to come last! The 11+ test is exactly the same: even if all the candidates were of a suitable standard to relish grammar school there has to be differentiation in marks to separate them enough and to give them individual rankings. The system demands it, as the 3 decimal places of standardised scores show. There could be very little difference in the performances of some. Please celebrate your children's attitude and effort in even attempting the exam. Don't let lack of offered places be confused with a lack of success.
The only places offered (successes??) that I have heard of this year are with a girl who has been tutored since Year 3 (a clear pass) and a boy who was 'bullied' for a whole year by his parents in addition to tutoring (a scraped pass from the waiting list). Another pair of boys (one of whom has had private schooling since nursery, with grammar school in mind the whole time) were both considered 'dead certs' but 'failed' (!!!!!!!) comprehensively and completely!! There are many wishes of 'luck' on this forum both before and after the exam and indeed a good dose of luck is what is needed!
Another child we know says a Year 9 pupil at their Essex grammar school was asked to leave because their level of achievement was so poor. I expect the exam does single out the right children in most cases but there are significant numbers of children who are missed or wrongly selected over others every year. You have to feel for the selective schools, however imperfect the system, as there does not really seem a better answer. What else can they do?
Well done to all the 11+ sitters for 2009 entry. It is a small part of a child's life and success is guaranteed to those with aspirations and supportive families, whatever school they go to. To the future.
To Tony 42 - your son's results were very good and you need to get his position/place checked. The VR score makes a difference but not enough to spoil a Maths and English score as high as your son's. Does the CSSE make mistakes??????!!!!!!!
I always remember, way back when I was at school, the way my P.E. teacher kept the pupil who was last to get changed in at playtime as a punishment. I remember thinking even if we were all super-quick, someone would still have to come last! The 11+ test is exactly the same: even if all the candidates were of a suitable standard to relish grammar school there has to be differentiation in marks to separate them enough and to give them individual rankings. The system demands it, as the 3 decimal places of standardised scores show. There could be very little difference in the performances of some. Please celebrate your children's attitude and effort in even attempting the exam. Don't let lack of offered places be confused with a lack of success.
The only places offered (successes??) that I have heard of this year are with a girl who has been tutored since Year 3 (a clear pass) and a boy who was 'bullied' for a whole year by his parents in addition to tutoring (a scraped pass from the waiting list). Another pair of boys (one of whom has had private schooling since nursery, with grammar school in mind the whole time) were both considered 'dead certs' but 'failed' (!!!!!!!) comprehensively and completely!! There are many wishes of 'luck' on this forum both before and after the exam and indeed a good dose of luck is what is needed!
Another child we know says a Year 9 pupil at their Essex grammar school was asked to leave because their level of achievement was so poor. I expect the exam does single out the right children in most cases but there are significant numbers of children who are missed or wrongly selected over others every year. You have to feel for the selective schools, however imperfect the system, as there does not really seem a better answer. What else can they do?
Well done to all the 11+ sitters for 2009 entry. It is a small part of a child's life and success is guaranteed to those with aspirations and supportive families, whatever school they go to. To the future.
To Tony 42 - your son's results were very good and you need to get his position/place checked. The VR score makes a difference but not enough to spoil a Maths and English score as high as your son's. Does the CSSE make mistakes??????!!!!!!!
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proud chelmsford mum
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:21 pm
Brentwood
My son sat the 11+ last November and was successful in gaining a place at his chosen grammar school. I have to say that the whole 11+ experience has not been pleasant and one which I am unfortunately going to have to repeat again with my next child in a few years time.
My son did go to an Independant school but did not have additional tuition. I wanted him to gain a place without additional support. Towards the end, however, I did get very nervous as many others where being given extensive additonal tutoring. This is where it is unfair for those children from the State sector who may not be able to affort the cost of tutoring. Without VR practice, gaining a grammar school place I would think would be remote. I don't know what is the fair way to allocate places. What I do think is unfair, however, is that children outside of Essex are being allocated places that more local children could have taken. We all know that the margin beteween places is small. Does anyone agree with me?
My son did go to an Independant school but did not have additional tuition. I wanted him to gain a place without additional support. Towards the end, however, I did get very nervous as many others where being given extensive additonal tutoring. This is where it is unfair for those children from the State sector who may not be able to affort the cost of tutoring. Without VR practice, gaining a grammar school place I would think would be remote. I don't know what is the fair way to allocate places. What I do think is unfair, however, is that children outside of Essex are being allocated places that more local children could have taken. We all know that the margin beteween places is small. Does anyone agree with me?