Am I missing something?

[littlebaker]

Thanks everyone for all of your comments. Pixiequeen, that's a good idea looking into the GCSE's rather than the A level's as I hadn't thought about other children joining in the sixth form. I thought that, as they had chosen the A levels, the results would reflect their interest, enthusiasm and educational resources. But, as you say, if many of these children have not had the advantage (?) of the grammar school prior to this point then maybe this is reflected in the A level results? I hate to have to rely on the results as, even I, don't put much store by them. But without the ability to visit the schools during a working day I have little else to go by. I agree that children have to be happy to learn but our 'best' local comp is really laid back and doesn't seem to have very high expectations (we did a school visit on an open day). My DS is bright but lazy and would not thrive if not encouraged. He's quite happy to go with the flow, rush his work and get onto 'freetime'!! So what I'm looking for really is a school that has high expectations, stretches the able ones, gives the children access to lots of competitive sport (not just a narrow/limited/not too competitive choice) and that actively encourages looking beyond the government's curriculum and inspires children to learn a language (well) or take up an instrument - just to enjoy learning and find it inspiring and interesting. Maybe I'm expecting too much But if GS offer this sort of education then it's worth a move and a lot of commuting for me and my husband. I just need to be sure they do actually provide that bit more.

[cairo]

Hello and welcome.

I would just say that if you are planning to move to Glos for schools, then do make sure you position yourself close enough to a good alternative to grammar, so that you have some options in due course.

The GS test can sometimes throw out some unexpected results. And many of the best comps here have surprisingly small areas they take children from. Don't listen to estate agents saying a property is within a school's catchment area: the whole of Cheltenham is officially within the catchment area for Balcarras, but unless you live within about half a mile, you don't stand a chance. So position yourself carefully, once you've made your decision.

I totally understand your point about wanting a school that encourages high expectations and inspires a love of learning - I guess that's what we're all hoping for, for our children. Some of the comps can undoubtedly provide that - I would hope that all of the GSs do so too. I expect that many of us with children at GS had kids who were bored at primary school / played down their intelligence in an attempt not to stand out etc. GS gives them the opportunity not to sell themselves short. DS1 loves being surrounded by intelligent, interesting boys and goes to school with a spring in his step every day. One day this week he felt unwell when he woke up, so I kept him off school. By late morning, he was begging me to drive him into school for the afternoon session, as he did not want to miss out! That definitely wouldn't have happened at primary!

Obviously, I have no way of knowing if he'd have been equally happy at the local comp.....I'm just very grateful that he is loving the school that he's at now.

[capers123]

... because our ds would like to be a scientist, so he says, and we would like him to do separate sciences, and for that to be a given that he will be able to do that.

Our local comp gives the option of separate sciences for the top set...

[gloucestermum]

My DS is bright but lazy and would not thrive if not encouraged. He's quite happy to go with the flow, rush his work and get onto 'freetime'!! So what I'm looking for really is a school that has high expectations, stretches the able ones, gives the children access to lots of competitive sport (not just a narrow/limited/not too competitive choice) and that actively encourages looking beyond the government's curriculum and inspires children to learn a language (well) or take up an instrument - just to enjoy learning and find it inspiring and interesting.

I think you have just completely summed up why I really wanted my DS to go to grammar school.And I think his school(The Crypt) offers all this to him!

GM

[Freya]

I completely disagree with the concept of "a bright child will succeed anywhere". I don't have stats to disprove it, my experience is personal anecdote, but it is very real. I also think it's wrong to advise people that everything will be ok if their DCs attend a comprehensive with 'grammar streams' or top sets who are expected to achieve A / A*.

It encourages people to think "DCs are bright therefore of course they will be in the top sets with similar children. In these top classes they will be stretched and access quality teaching in an environment where their peers all have a love of learning and want to succeed and anyway, a bright child will do well anywhere."

- What if the school doesn't stream for a while (maybe not until year eight) or just streams into two ability groups to begin with? What then if enough children in DC's class are so disruptive and switched off that the teacher struggles to cover the syllabus? What if a couple of DC's teachers take regular sick leave and the supply teacher just gets them to copy from the book? What if your DCs are taunted for caring and are desperate to fit in?

- What happens at testing time if parallel classes don't have the above issues to the same extent as your DC's class. Who will be in the top sets?

- What if you were skipping along (quite happy because you have a bright DC) oblivious to all the above because your DC doesn't talk much about their school day and all that is said at parents evening is 'oh DC is doing fine'? Well, you would know from the grades and levels wouldn't you - errrr no actually, children at the top of low sets have work graded A to encourage them and it can be harder than you think to extract levels from some schools. Our DD got 98% in maths one year - wow amazing we said, not knowing she was actually top of a low set.

- What if, after setting, even in set 2 there are children with low aspirations, low motivation, poor & disruptive behaviour who pick on anyone wanting to actually work. What if these children are the ones your DC ends up wanting to impress (to keep the pressure off, to avoid bullying, or to be in with the cool crowd). What if your DC switches off in class?

- What if, in year 9, you find out that your DC has actually been 'accidentally' placed in set 4 out of 6 for a key subject (maths) and has been there most of the year where the expectation is just foundation level? How much of the curriculum have they missed?

- What if, after all this time spent in lower sets your DC develops low confidence, low self esteem, low aspirations and a poor work ethic?

- How would you feel then about people telling you "your bright DC2 will succeed wherever they go"?

Sorry that was long but people need to know what can happen. Wheels can be set in motion and no matter how interested and involved you try to be as a parent these things can still happen without you having the slightest idea until it's too late. Secondary is not like primary where you know what table your DC is on and what level reading book they have compared to everyone else.

Our DC2 attends an independent school (no grammars here). I wish we had known better for DC1!

[Amber]

If that picture of comprehensive schools is accurate, and the fate of bright children in the comprehensive system is as you describe, then I think we had better all pack up and go home. Heaven knows what will then happen to the 95% of schoolchildren in Gloucestershire for whom there is no place in those palaces of excellence and perfection, the grammar schools.

Now, I'm off to one of those dens of bad behaviour, poor teaching and low aspirations to do my job. cheered by the confidence you have in me, Freya.

[mad?]

Now, I'm off to one of those dens of bad behaviour, poor teaching and low aspirations to do my job. cheered by the confidence you have in me, Freya.

Amber, Freya's account of what happened to her DD is nothing to do with confidence in you IMO.
Things can go wrong in any school. Sweeping generalisations about one system or the other can always be disproved by exception. We are all guided by our experiences and these form our opinions. Our local comp is not very good and everything Freya has listed rings true of my friends' experiences of it. That doesn't mean all comprehensives are like this nor all teachers in comprehensives poor. Indeed it is probably the exception, but for Freya clearly an exception from which she bears the scars.

[Freya]

Amber - some of my DD's teachers were lovely, worked so very hard and genuinely cared about all the children. DD achieved a grade A at English GCSE absolutely because of a teacher like this. This doesn't negate anything I said above. There were some children at the same school achieving 9 A grades - maybe these children had fewer supply teachers, maybe there were fewer disruptions in their initial streamed classes, maybe their class managed to cover all the syllabus before tests streamed them further?

My issue is with the system not with individual teachers.

I refuse to gamble with DC2's education on what if's and maybe's.

[magwich2]

If you are looking at league tables I think you need to look at the number of A*s at GCSE - nothing else counts much anymore. At A level you need to look at the percentage who get A or A*.

[mike1880]

I'm willing to believe that the school has some influence on the percentages getting A*-C but I don't think they have much influence over the percentage getting A* - that's rather down to the child IMHO.

Mike