"pupil premium" in Pates what is your opinion

[Amber]

My point is, how many "clever kids" do we all know that are not sitting the entrance test or who don't want to go to a GS? My answer is 0

My answer would be rather different. I worked in a primary school not far from Pates last year- not one child took a grammar test. At my son's primary school last year, 7 out of 60 children took it. I personally know 2 children in that group whom I would say were 'very clever' and they didn't sit it. If you go to Gotherington or Charlton Kings, sure, many children are being prepared for the tests. Try some of the other primaries and you will find a much lower rate. At the school I work in, there are many, many bright children whose parents would never have entered them for GS tests. I am not necessarily arguing with your other points, but I would make a distinction between 'clever kids' and 'clever middle class kids'- the access is just not the same. Which is one thing Pates is trying to address with its Pupil Premium Policy. It won't work unless they go further and take coaching into some of the local primaries, or better still, chuck out the test in its current format and free wheel it every year with different tasks no one at all could prepare for, and make it an opt out system.

Dream on.

[trampoline]

, but I would make a distinction between 'clever kids' and 'clever middle class kids'- the access is just not the same. Dream on.

Can't disagree with you there!
It's another thing I find myself at odds with. I don't believe in tutoring children for the test and especially paying someone to do it BUT there's absolutely no way I would have chosen not to, because we all know it's not a level playing field.

[capers123]

better still, chuck out the test in its current format and free wheel it every year with different tasks no one at all could prepare for, and make it an opt out system.

The only problems with that are firstly that there would be a higher cost to the Grammars to prepare new tests each year, and secondly, I think the tests would have to be entirely objective. If it were down to (say) marked essays, then each marker would be likely to score slightly differently; I can only imagine the potential increase in appeal numbers.

I'm certainly not disagreeing with you though.

[stroudydad]

I certain believe that the exam should be taken by all pupils, because there will be some who could pass without any help, but whose parents for one reason or another may not consider entering the DC under the current system. Cast net wider, catch more fish..

[Amber]

better still, chuck out the test in its current format and free wheel it every year with different tasks no one at all could prepare for, and make it an opt out system.

The only problems with that are firstly that there would be a higher cost to the Grammars to prepare new tests each year, and secondly, I think the tests would have to be entirely objective. If it were down to (say) marked essays, then each marker would be likely to score slightly differently; I can only imagine the potential increase in appeal numbers.

I'm certainly not disagreeing with you though.

I'm flattered that you think those are the only problems!

I was thinking things like - cook a meal; follow an outdoor trail; entertain a 3 year old; make a musical instrument...I don't know. As you know, I would prefer they chucked the whole system out...it just seems to feel more and more unfair the more I know about it.

[Jean.Brodie]

'6.3.
A pupil must achieve a score that places him/her in the first 180 of those taking
the Test to be eligible to be considered for admission. The score is calculated by
adding together the standardised marks from the two verbal reasoning papers.
The rank order of these 180 ‘qualifying’ children is used, along with other criteria
listed below, to allocate available spaces in the following order:

• any ‘looked-after’ children1 in the list of 180 qualifying children;
• any of the 180 who, at Registration, qualify for the Pupil Premium; and then
• Test rank order, until all Year 7 spaces are allocated.'

I thought I would flick through the new Pate's Admissions Rules and the above seems to be the relevant bit.

How far down the ranking is the final (120th) place in most years? What is the range of standardised totals for those who get in? What would be the score of a candidate ranked 180th? ... Can anyone help?

[EmeraldE]

At Pates it definately went down as low as 141 last year. So that means at least 21 students in the top 120 chose to go to another school or indie school. Some parents let their kids sit the test in the hope that if they pass well they can use it to bargain with Indie schools for some consession on fees (aparently!). Other times Pates is too far or they just decided that somewhere else suited their child better.

EE

[stroudydad]

I have read somewhere in this forum that the 160th ranked child was offered a place this year.

[Cup of tea]

I have read somewhere in this forum that the 160th ranked child was offered a place this year.

Definitely went further than 160 which is one of reasons why they have gone to 180.


Re: Trampoline - sorry unable to access your post or quote it here!
Unfortunately league tables are all too easily "doctored" to give the best impression. Students studying Btech results don't go into league tables, or often count for disproportinate numbers of a true academic GCSE. Ofsted visits again are not ALWAYS a true reflection of the school. When schools had notice of inspection the most disruptive classes suddenly had trips organised for inspection days. Also an outsanding school is now not inspected unless the results drop. When they do (and this has happened to a good Glos comp v recently) the ofsted report is written before they even come into the school. It is all done on data. FFT data (which predicts how your child could do at GCSE from their KS2 SATS) can throw up some incredible anomalies. FFT is only an indicator - yet it is being used by Ofsted (and sometimes in School) as a rod to beat teachers with.

I do agree with you Trampoline - I would not send my kids to the local comp if I wasn't happy with it. But sometimes things are not always as they seem