Crypt 2018 Reallocation outcome

[onthefence]

how do the appeal board differentiate between them?

'Ip dip sky blue...'

'granny's sitting on the loo.' My favourite means of distributing justice.

[RedMaple]

But, Crypt have always been oversubscribed after appeal panel allocations. Crypt had 35 successful appeals last year out of 85ish, putting them at least 34 over PAN.

The School have made it very clear that they really don't want to go over the 150 PAN.

I think the number of successful appeals last year is a bit of red herring, tbh. As per Lysander's post on another thread containing the minutes of the Crypt Governors' meeting where expansion and going co-ed was discussed, I picked up from this, that they really wanted the extra numbers from 2017 entry. I think those appeals were a way for them to gain the extra numbers they wanted ahead of the PAN formally increasing (you can call me cynical if you like and I may even answer!) I don't think there will be anywhere near the number of successful appeals this year.

[onthefence]

But, Crypt have always been oversubscribed after appeal panel allocations. Crypt had 35 successful appeals last year out of 85ish, putting them at least 34 over PAN.

The School have made it very clear that they really don't want to go over the 150 PAN.

I think the number of successful appeals last year is a bit of red herring, tbh. As per Lysander's post on another thread containing the minutes of the Crypt Governors' meeting where expansion and going co-ed was discussed, I picked up from this, that they really wanted the extra numbers from 2017 entry. I think those appeals were a way for them to gain the extra numbers they wanted ahead of the PAN formally increasing (you can call me cynical if you like and I may even answer!) I don't think there will be anywhere near the number of successful appeals this year.

I agree RedMaple. They will certainly have to stiffen up their argument about not going over PAN (sorry, not an appeals expert) to something slightly more in line with the other grammar schools, lest they end up with having 2/3 extra classes instead of 1. I picked up something similar from the minutes and that they wanted to admit more children automatically, not via the appeals route. I guess that is a more likely outcome next year, now they have gone through this year's rollercoaster.

[cazien]

But, Crypt have always been oversubscribed after appeal panel allocations. Crypt had 35 successful appeals last year out of 85ish, putting them at least 34 over PAN.

The School have made it very clear that they really don't want to go over the 150 PAN.

I think the number of successful appeals last year is a bit of red herring, tbh. As per Lysander's post on another thread containing the minutes of the Crypt Governors' meeting where expansion and going co-ed was discussed, I picked up from this, that they really wanted the extra numbers from 2017 entry. I think those appeals were a way for them to gain the extra numbers they wanted ahead of the PAN formally increasing (you can call me cynical if you like and I may even answer!) I don't think there will be anywhere near the number of successful appeals this year.

Yes, I can perfectly understand why they don't want to go over PAN. The school informed parents in November 2015 they proposed increasing PAN to 140 in Sept 2017. Last years appeals were only a little higher than normal - they had 24 successful appeals in 2015.

[Rachm82]

So where do those appealing stand with the prejudice element that is usually used in the schools case? Even though I do understand that from the email I received, Crypt do not have to fill their PAN, surely then you are appealing for a place that is available rather than oversubscription...is that right?

[cazien]

So where do those appealing stand with the prejudice element that is usually used in the schools case? Even though I do understand that from the email I received, Crypt do not have to fill their PAN, surely then you are appealing for a place that is available rather than oversubscription...is that right?

I'm no appeals expert but, logically there is no prejudice element from the school. If anything the school not filling places will prejudice themselves!
I would agree you are appealing for a place if you know 100% they are undersubscribed. As, I believe they have admitted this, then an appeal hearing should not focus on the school being prejudiced for another pupil to attend it.
The only prejudice Crypt could argue is if you cannot provide academic ability evidence that your child will thrive at a GS and not be constantly over-stretched and unable to maintain expected standards.

Anyone experienced in appeals will correct me if I am wrong

[cazien]

DofE Appeals for grammar schools guidelines:-

3.11 Designated grammar schools are permitted to select children for admission on the basis of academic ability and may leave places unfilled if there are insufficient eligible applicants. Some admission authorities for grammar schools offer places to those who score highest, others set a pass mark and then apply oversubscription criteria to those applicants that reach the required standard.

3.12 Some admission authorities for grammar schools operate a ‘local review’ process to determine whether children who have, for example, failed the entrance test ought to be deemed as being of grammar school standard. Such review will be completed before the allocation of places so that children who are consequently deemed to be of grammar school standard can be considered at the same time as others. The local review process does not replace a parent’s right of appeal against the refusal of a place at a school for which they have applied.

3.13 An appeal panel may be asked to consider an appeal where the appellant believes that the child did not perform at their best on the day of the entrance test. In such cases:
a) where a local review process has not been applied, the panel must only uphold the appeal if it is satisfied:

i) that there is evidence to demonstrate that the child is of the required academic standards, for example, school reports giving Year 5/Year 6 SAT results or a letter of support from their current or previous school clearly indicating why the child is considered to be of grammar school ability; and ii) where applicable, that the appellant’s arguments outweigh the admission authority’s case that admission of additional children would cause prejudice.
b) where a local review process has been followed, the panel must only consider whether each child’s review was carried out in a fair, consistent and objective way and if there is no evidence that this has been done, the panel must follow the process in paragraph 3.13(a) above.
3.14 In either case the panel must not devise its own methods to assess suitability for a grammar school place unrelated to the evidence provided for the hearing.

[Watermelon8]

My understanding of appeals is that you are only successful if your dc has evidence to prove their academic level is suitable for gs but even then, that doesn’t guarantee you a place unless you can prove why they didn’t perform better in the 11+. I thought that they usually only go over PAN in extenuating circumstances such as it being a looked after child or maybe foster child just moving to an area or medical circumstances. I may be wrong tho!

[Amber]

That is all very well but no way is Crypt going to leave itself 25 under PAN because none of the appellants is supposedly 'the right standard'. They would lose funding for every one of those places. You can't 'prove' a reason for underperformance on the day; and equally, Crypt is not that selective that it is going to turn down a reasonably bright child who wants to be there when they have almost a whole class to fill.

[Watermelon8]

Really pleased for you McFly - glad that your DS has got the place you want!

Yes, just had the same email.
The maths doesn't quite add up, but presumably not all of the 50 who asked to go on the waiting list have now accepted. If they had, then there would only be 15 places left.

At least 1 of the original 79 took a late allocation Tommies place & I don’t know but maybe more??