First grammar in 50 yrs: campus in Sevenoaks proposed

[mystery]

Hi Villagedad, so how big is the bulge that is passing through - what's the percentage difference between the projected peak and trough years? If the grammars are going to experience a squeeze on spaces, then so will the non-selectives as they take 75% of the Kent population.

If it's just to stop TWGSB having a problem with an extra class now and then it's a bit of sledgehammer to crack a nut cost-wise isn't it? Or is it an enormous bulge coming through? Has KCC published the data?

How many children would a successful grammar "annex" need to be to be able to offer all the facilities and subjects needed, and be financially viable year on year? I thought 180+ per year was the rule of thumb for an academy, so a bit less for a grammar which is an annex and sharing some costs (e.g. the SLT shuffles between the two sites?)

[Villagedad]

Hi Villagedad, so how big is the bulge that is passing through - what's the percentage difference between the projected peak and trough years? If the grammars are going to experience a squeeze on spaces, then so will the non-selectives as they take 75% of the Kent population.

If it's just to stop TWGSB having a problem with an extra class now and then it's a bit of sledgehammer to crack a nut cost-wise isn't it? Or is it an enormous bulge coming through? Has KCC published the data?

How many children would a successful grammar "annex" need to be to be able to offer all the facilities and subjects needed, and be financially viable year on year? I thought 180+ per year was the rule of thumb for an academy, so a bit less for a grammar which is an annex and sharing some costs (e.g. the SLT shuffles between the two sites?)

The bulge must be pretty big and growing for them to be considering it! I would have thought an FOI to KCC would give you the information. Let us know how you get on

[Sevenoaks Anon]

Hi ! Understand that the meeting is on the 29th March at County Hall ,Maidstone but I don't know the time .....I cannot get onto the website linked in an earlier post so wondered if anyone has any idea of the surrounding villages that are included in the proposed catchment?
Thanks
Tigger

Here's is the official wording from the Grammar Campaign website:
"Our aim is to establish a state grammar school in Sevenoaks that admits boys and girls from Year 7 (aged 11) located on the Wildernesse site from September 2013; a school that uses a non-super selective admissions policy based on a catchment area covering Sevenoaks and its surrounding villages"

Clearly the exact admissions policy is tbc, but if not based on score, I presume it would need to work on distance.

I've done some of my own maths on this. I just couldn't understand why children in Sevenoaks were getting allocated schools miles away. Using admissions data there are currently over 600 children in primaries with a 4.5 mile radius of Sevenoaks (this includes Otford, Kemsing, Ide Hill, Borough Green etc) Further than that to the South & residents are nearer to Tonbridge. Obviously there are many more village that are still nearby. The pass rate in this area is averagely 40% over the last 3 years in this area, which means there is demand for up to 240 places less those that choose private, faith or selective schools elsewhere. Between 120 and 180 seems reasonable.

Sending all these children to Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells surely defies all common sense?

[Villagedad]

I've done some of my own maths on this. I just couldn't understand why children in Sevenoaks were getting allocated schools miles away. Using admissions data there are currently over 600 children in primaries with a 4.5 mile radius of Sevenoaks (this includes Otford, Kemsing, Ide Hill, Borough Green etc) Further than that to the South & residents are nearer to Tonbridge. Obviously there are many more village that are still nearby. The pass rate in this area is averagely 40% over the last 3 years in this area, which means there is demand for up to 240 places less those that choose private, faith or selective schools elsewhere. Between 120 and 180 seems reasonable.

Sending all these children to Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells surely defies all common sense?

Yes totally agree, especially as from September 2012, KCC will no longer fund school bus and train journeys from Sevenoaks to Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells grammar schools for new children.

Are there plans to have a meeting with the heads of those grammar schools who are interested in running a satellite campus before the KCC council meeting on 29th March at County Hall in Maidstone?

The more I think about the proposal the more it becomes a really compelling solution to the twin problems of significant increases in pupil numbers over the coming years, and local grammar school places for Sevenoaks pupils rather than having to commute long distances.

It will also have the benefit of freeing up more places for local children in Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells, whose places were often taken by children commuting into the area from far and wide. Hopefully this will then lead to more contented children being able to do after school activities rather than having to rush off to catch a train or bus..

Thanks
Villagedad

[neurotic kent mum]

But the places at the super selectives will just be taken by those coming from great distances but on a train line. gatwick, central london etc

[mystery]

Are the grammar heads keen on losing their pupils who live in Sevenoaks and surroundings to a campus in Sevenoaks? I don't really see how the maths of it all stacks up - either pupils numbers-wise or costs. And are Sevenoaks parents whose children get high enough scores for Skinners, Judd or Toggs going to slum it at the ordinary local grammar which would have to be an outposting of TWGSB or Weald ........ unless you can have an "ordinary grammar" as the annex of a superselective.

And all those lost opportunities to meet up with your mates in Tonbridge Park would be sad; the former Wildernesse site does not have the same allure!!

[mystery]

Oh, I'm pretty sure that from where I live it's quite a bit further as the crow flies to Tonbridge than Sevenoaks. But the journey by train to Tonbridge is much quicker and easier; so if this place is in the calculation of numbers that would attend a Sevenoaks grammar, the estimate is wrong.

[Villagedad]

I don't really see how the maths of it all stacks up - either pupils numbers-wise or costs.

Mystery, I have some figures for you as the Sevenoaks Grammar School campaign site has now listed some KCC projections figures as follows:

In October 2011, Kent County Council (“KCC”) published its projections for population growth in each Kent district*. In relation to Sevenoaks district, and the three nearby districts where Sevenoaks district children attend grammar schools (Tonbridge & Malling, Tunbridge Wells and Dartford), KCC predict that by 2018 there will be 1,700** more children aged 10 and 11 years. This means that 850 extra secondary school places will be needed at West Kent schools per academic year by 2018.

Approximately 30%*** of West Kent children pass the 11 plus exam and are therefore entitled to grammar school places. Consequently, by 2018, approximately 250 extra grammar school places will be needed in West Kent to take account of the predicted population growth. 250 extra grammar school places is equivalent to more than eight extra classrooms of pupils per academic year; or 56 extra classrooms for all academic years. This is too large an increase for the existing West Kent grammar schools to cater for via expansion at their existing sites.

The only practical solution is for a grammar school to be established on a new site with plenty of space available for expansion. The (shortly to be vacant) Wildernesse school site in Sevenoaks would appear to be the only suitable location large enough to accommodate the extra grammar school places needed to take account of this population growth.

*http://www.kent.gov.uk/your_council/ken ... casts.aspx

**According to KCC, in 2012, there are a total of 10,500 children aged 10 and 11 in the districts of Sevenoaks, Tonbridge & Malling, Tunbridge Wells and Dartford. In 2018, KCC are predicting that there will be 12,200 children aged 10 and 11 in those districts, an increase of 1,700 children (or 16%).

***In 2010/11, 36% Sevenoaks area children passed the 11 plus exam and were offered grammar school places. For Kent as a whole, the figure was 28%.

Surely this tells us a new grammar school in Sevenoaks will help to alleviate this situation before it becomes a crisis?

Also if I was a Tonbridge, Tunbridge Wells or Dartford parent of a year 5 or below DC I would be signing the petition straight away, as it would help free up more spaces for our DCs currently taken up by pupils commuting from Sevenoaks..

The Sevenoaks grammar petition link can be found here:

http://democracy.kent.gov.uk/mgEPetitio ... ID=3906969" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best regards
Villagedad
(PS. I don't live in Sevenoaks but do live near to Tonbridge & Tunbridge Wells grammars)

[SSM]

Haven't really had time to digest the figures, but if 250 extra GS places will be needed, then over 800 places will be needed for the children that don't pass the 11+. How are these children to be accomodated?

[pheasantchick]

I don't think having an extra grammar will reduce the pressure on the super selectives. If you want one of these schools, you will go for it. The only difference is that you'll have a local grammar as a back-up, rather than one further afield.

Also, travelling to school is not a situation exclusive to Tonbridge, and often its not distance that is the problem, but ease of travel. My DS travels twice the distance than if he'd gone to the two local grammars, but he leaves the same time as them, due to public transport timetables. Also, the travelling is a social time. Also, my son has not complained because he can't do an afterschool club because he lives further away. Its simply not an issue. Living further away has not prevented this.

I'm fairly neutral on whether a new grammer school should be established in Sevenoaks or not. however, I think some of the arguements are a bit weak (and remind me of that lively catchment v score debate some time ago.

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... villagedad" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think this is the link: