TGS-408?

[franticmum]

TGS does not do vertical tutoring. This year 7-9 mix is only for form time, ie no lessons as these are all done in year groups. Therefore, this is only about an hour a day that they mix like this.

My daughter was not a fan when it was told to her in year 8 that it would be happening in year 9 but I don't believe she thinks it's as bad as she thought. She is now split up from some of her friends at that registration/form time but they come together again on the train and/or lessons.

It was brought in to help the younger ones by having older, wiser(?!!) ones around to discuss things with, to mentor them. TGS also ensures girls are mixed up quite a lot with some lessons in form groups and some mixed up across all the forms. This stops girls getting clicky and allows them to have more friendships across the whole year group.

I suppose the only down side of this that I can see, is previously form groups were done geographically so that people travelled in together. If the mixing up balance swings too far the other way, then it may be hard for the year 7's to establish firm friends but I'm only surmising on this aspect. As I do not have a year 7, I can't comment on where the pendulum is.

TGS have cut down on the number of reports issued for the whole school but this is still above the one minimum and depending on your year group, you could still have 3 reports for the year. Year 7 have two progress reports and a full report, for example.

[mystery]

Do you think they are going to do this vertical form tutor group arrangement every year now, or is it a temporary experiment? Are they inviting any feedback from children and parents - particularly the new year 7s? I would not see it working well for my children but of course I could be wrong. 1 hour per day to get to know the children in your class, teaching group, year group, whatever you call it is quite a bit. Only having 7 children your own age is like a trip back to a small primary school with mixed age classes. Mmmm. Pity. I see it as one of these not so new gimmicky ideas, but I suppose that if done well it must have some benefits.

[Essex2Kent]

Do you think they are going to do this vertical form tutor group arrangement every year now, or is it a temporary experiment? Are they inviting any feedback from children and parents - particularly the new year 7s? I would not see it working well for my children but of course I could be wrong. 1 hour per day to get to know the children in your class, teaching group, year group, whatever you call it is quite a bit. Only having 7 children your own age is like a trip back to a small primary school with mixed age classes. Mmmm. Pity. I see it as one of these not so new gimmicky ideas, but I suppose that if done well it must have some benefits.

think its to stay and its a real pain getting class reps as well. Another Mrs Joyce masterpiece from management book page 393874

[mystery]

I am so disappointed to hear that togs has vertical tutoring instead of same age forms. When did they introduce it?

[mystery]

We have VTGs at my ds1s GS. It is only for tutor time, however, the rest of the time they are taught in form year groups (i.e. a classroom of all Y8s etc). In Y7, they are registered in Y7 classes with a dedicated Y7 tutor for each class, to ease them into the school life. In Y8 they are split into VTG which are "house" groups. So each form has a few boys from each year 8-6th Form, all of whom are in the same school house. I thought my asd boy would be overwhelmed, but it has been superb as he now has older boys acknowledging him through the school day, they act as informal mentors, they help out if they think a younger boy is struggling, they have been known to "have a word" and they do charity things in their VTG. There is an upside to them - but they are not taught in VTG.

Starting vtg in year 7 sounds a bit tough to me. Your son's school starts it in year 8. Maybe that is a better compromise.

[kenyancowgirl]

When I first heard about it, I wasn't a fan. This was before my ds started in Y7 even (where, as you know, they don't have vtg for that year.) Since he has been immersed in it, I have no problem as it has been handled well and all the boys accept it. Most of the secondary schools round here (private and state) do it form Y7 and I have heard nothing but positives from parents about it, even from ones who were apprehensive about the idea. I think children are more resilient than we give them credit for.

[mystery]

I guess it depends how it works out the rest of the day. If you don't strike it lucky friendship wise with any children in your vertical form is there the time to make friends at any other point in the days? When you go out at breaktime you are not going to be as familiar with as many children of your own age as you would be in a proper form of year 7 all starting out together. And what about the experiences some schools try and give a whole new class together at the start of year 7 to achieve some bonding? Do you have to do it every year 7, 8 and 9 as your group changes every year?

I once observed a school for two weeks with vertical forms - I went to the form period every day. It made me sad seeing the children who didn't have a part in it. The form tutor's time was taken up with working out all the different bits and pieces that had to each of the year groups represented there, and that was it.

It was a bit of a limbo time, and if there had been 30 children the same age, far more chance for those who were out on a limb to develop friendships.

How does it work the rest of the day at TOGS in year 7? What groups are they taught in for which subjects?

Maybe I would become a convert but I just don't see how really unless your child easily develops a group with the small number of their own age with which they are placed, or if they don't care that much.

I suppose I'm finding this news disappointing as (if DD gets a high mark which is a big IF) having seen a school with VTG in action from the inside quite a while back I very strongly felt it would not suit her. I still feel the same. I was so looking forward to secondary being the end of a tiny pool from which friendships could form, but this system would seem to extend that pain.

Do children make genuine friendships across the year groups a result or is it just this "mentoring" notion? Do they really want children up to two years younger tagging round with them at breaktime? And what happens if you do make a good friend in the year or two above and then they leave? There seems to be a higher chance of a child gaining several longterm friendships in the traditional one year group form to me.

Sorry I really just can't picture why it is better than the alternative unless there was bullying of younger children by the older ones and this is supposed to engender a different spirit.

Does Weald of Kent do the same system too?

[Essex2Kent]

Sorry I really just can't picture why it is better than the alternative unless there was bullying of younger children by the older ones and this is supposed to engender a different spirit.

Does Weald of Kent do the same system too?

No benefit I can see and all year groups stick together in form time and no WoK doesnt nor does TWIGGS...

[mystery]

Oh - so it narrows my choices just down to Weald unless on a visit I can convince myself it could work for my child(ren).

Do they have no feedback mechanism for parents on what they think of the vertical system?

Last thing I want to do is to move from a primary with weird fixed ideas and no real discussion mechanism to a secondary with the same approach. It does my head in as they say!

Are they taught in proper forms in year 7 for everything, or split up according to ability?

E2K, how many children are there of the "right" age in your child's form? When did they bring in this system? Were parents consulted and were most in favour or not? What are parents feeling now? Does your year 7 child have good friends? How many? Do any of them visit one another's houses?

As this school is superselective and children travel there from quite a long way the chances of having some children local to you in your vertical form are even lower than in a traditional form.

Was there some kind of problem at the school that this system is supposed to be combatting?

Mods, I'm aware that we have diverged here into a discussion about TOGS vertical tutoring, friendships etc etc. Would it be possible please to split out the thread at the point at which this happened?

[Essex2Kent]

As others have said its only for tutor time which is 10 mins in the morning and then 30 mins in the PM. My year 7 has 8 in her Vertical from year 7 - she gets on OK with them but that's a small group and whilst the yr 8 and 9 are friendly they are not friends, we all know years stick together, always have and always will.

For the rest of her year 7 classes she is in split groups. All the same year and the groups are different. She has one girl only the same in all classes. So again very mixed up. They tended this year to put all the girls from the same primary in the same house. And it seems the VTG were arrange on travel arrangements rather than distance... so if you say you get the bus, then you are with others that get the bus etc.

We were never asked as parents no. As for feedback even if we didn't like it it wouldn't be changed.

Its also hard to tell if they are setted yet or not. They are certainly not told if they are but she doesn't seem to be in maths and English groups with anyone with a lowish score but who knows.

As I said before the main problem with these mixed tutor groups - sorry "learning communities!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" is that a) there is no way to really appoint a class rep as too difficult to arrange, b) they have a limited peer friend group and c) there is too much different information for each year to disseminate by the Teacher, sorry Leaning mentor!!!!!!!!!! But once they get into their 5 periods of teaching they are all together in year 7, just mixed up