For those who passed...

[bns]

there's only one thing more tragic then being over prepped for the 11+ and that's being under prepared for every eventualility including anxiety-pressure/cough and colds/lack of sleep ect
but those who have had extensive prep/tutoring better be prepared to continue to tutor their DC through out their GS education just to keep their head above the water and once they are teanagers that's easier said then done!
even though my dd had 1hr home tutoring for 4 days a week from the beginning of yr 5 , she had an anxiety attack in the AGGS exam missed a few of the NVR question but she still had enough reserve to score 400+, and this is a girl who was told she was not hitting any of targets in yr 3 , so no genius or natural prodigy!!

[countrymum]

I don't know whether that 'tragic underprepared' comment was aimed at my situation but NOTHING could have prepared us for the events of the night before one of her exams that imo meant she was under par on the day. Anyway all done with now. Alls well

Yes I witnessed for myself children crying, shaking, very very anxious and something If I'm honest I found uncomfortable watching with children at such an early age, whatever the circumstances surrounding it. Your DD is obviously a natural, passing Withington is no mean feat at all. Good luck to your DD hope she'll be very happy there, it's a great school and well done to her

Right my turn to say goodbye, thanks for the support Traffordites *thumbs up* We are all very lucky to have our children here with us, safe and well. School stuff isn't the be all and end all. Good luck to all the DC's at their future schools and back to topic, Pickle good luck with your appeal x

[bns]

the only point I am trying to make is that the vast majority of children will need tutoring for the 11+ be it DIY or professional.
my dd certaintly did, it took a lot of hard work to just get her upto speed, there are true "naturals" out there but they are few and far between, maybe the top 1% my DD was not one of them, we worked very hard, and I think she can be proud of herself, even if some may think she has been over tutored (and less deserving than a child who had no prep )which I do not concur with and she will have to stand on her own two feet once she is at senior school because I will not be in a position to help her personally or financially.
In the end parents will know if their child has been over tutored , some children take the extra work in their stride some have to go through it kicking and screeming , only time will tell , but I can only speak of my DD , without the extra help from myself and and hard work she would of never of passed the 11+ let alone scored so highly,I would love to say my dd is so clever that she did no special prep for the 11+ but that would not be true she worked very, very hard, and in the end I believe she got what she deserved no more or no less.The good news is she now has a love of learning,(so much so that even though I have told her she does not need to worry about the L6 sats she is insisting on me getting her L6 papers, which I have refused, now is a good a time as any to learn to stand on her own two feet)I was always mindful that it could of all gone horribly wrong, with her hating learning and me for that matter! in retrospect to be honest I now feel she just needed the confidence and maturity when she was "failing at school" and I think working with me for all those endless hours provided that for her, and as a result we have become closer, seperation from her dad did not help matters so she has not had it easy by any means
It is my belief that her beening offered a place at WGS was not so much her exam results but the progress she had made in the last few yrs, this is the advantage of Indie entrerence process they look at the whole child holistically not just on raw scores on one particular day, maybe thay should introduce a similar process for state maintained grammars?
Anyway happy Easter all

[nickiveg]

I'm a novice in all this as dd is second born and didn't do gs with first but she wanted to do it so with some vague info I eventually got a tutor as the verbal reasoning was beyond me plus I believe kids learn better from other ( well mine do as I'm a critical ole mum ) so she had tutoring from the Xmas before the exam so 8 mths but it was just one hr a week and no homework. She also did a week in summer practice camp with friend Whitchurch was ok but not sure how helpful. Anyway she passed Aggs and Loreto but has chosen to go to Loreto and as we are out or area prob best as Aggs wouldn't have offered place but I'm not ashamed off tutoring because we live out of catchment she had no idea of tests and I would have felt like I was sending a lamb to slaughter otherwise. I agree with country mum on the day of Aggs it was awful to see kids so stressed and it was also my daughters bd so I really did feel like a bad ma sending her in she is also at level 5 a/b and is doing 6 but is she a genius NO just a British kid who needs a bit of guidance and confidence and hopefully will grow to be a goodish teenager like her sis who has only been in comp and done well x btw country mum where is your dd going ?
Happy Easter all xx

[CarpeDiem]

No one needs to be ashamed of tutoring as everyone requires some for the 11+. How much is the question if a child has been tutored for years and just scrapes though the exam are they really of the required standard? A Grammar ability child should be able to pick up all the skills required with about 6-9 months of tutoring at about 1 hour a week. I do feel with hindsight that tutors can help enourmously with not just the test content but with coping stategies to help children deal with the stress they will be under on the day. I feel most sorry for children who already have siblings at a school as the additional pressure they must feel is awful IMO.

advantage of Indie entrance process they look at the whole child holistically not just on raw scores on one particular day, maybe they should introduce a similar process for state maintained grammars?

So true wouldn't that be a great way for things to progress in the state sector.

I hope everyone has had a good Easter. Good luck with your appeal Pickle

[countrymum]

Happy Easter! Hope you're all having fun, just for the record not my quote above but yes I agree. Also agree absolutely no one should feel ashamed of tutoring at all. I do think there has to be at least potential and that the tutoring perhaps builds on this potential. I do think a reasonably academic child 'should' be able to pass an 11+ from going over past papers, being taught the mechanics of the exam and maybe go over some work not covered in school. However one has to understand their DC's shall indeed be up against many, many more who have had intensive tutoring/coaching and perhaps from yr 4/5.

Grammar schools I believe were put in place traditionally for perhaps the bright but disadvantaged and nowerdays so many parents are more well informed, and ambitious for their offspring and perhaps those who go down the private tutoring and have the ready cash for tutoring are indeed at an advantage? There are many who genuinely can't afford the hourly tutor rate or have the skills to educate via DIY or even understand how the system works to gain entry to a grammar school, they may have a very bright/quirky child who has potential and would gain much from being in a grammar school education but slip through the net because there are so many out there who are more educated on the system, want it so much and do everything possible to give their child a good chance, and who would blame them? Fair though?

I still am in favour of the old fashined way of doing the 11+ at school where many of the DC's weren't even aware they were taking an exam, but hey there's no one size fits all, so maybe there shall never be a perfect system. My DD and I probably had a very lazy attitude to it all, but we kind of had fun along the way and I wouldn't do anything differently. I hope I don't come across 'bitter', I really am not, just because my DD didn't pass one exam. I genuinely think it was not that she was underprepared but we both, well me really, took a decision that in hindsight was not the best. On another day who knows what the outcome would have been. Completing a lengthy special circumstances form on the day must say something that I had doubts even before she took the exam that things may not go in her favour, only me to blame on that one, not her, not the system. She did no specific revision/tutoring for her indie exam which covered CEM, I didn't even know what that was until shortly before the exam day and honestly was very happy, as she was, to send her in and just do her best on the day. I think a much more fair exam as really delved into the character of a child judging on what DD told me about the questions. I was very proud of her getting that offer.

Nickiveg she is off to grammar school, although of course we had preferences, we were happy with all of the ones she took exams for and know she shall be very happy there. Personally don't feel is appropriate to divulge which one on an open forum. I should be jumping up and down with excitement but can't help but feel for the children who I know would do so well at a GS but whose families just aren't aware of how competitive this system is.

Gaining entry I can only think is the real beginning of the journey and wish all the very best to everyones DC. Pickle, you go get 'em in your appeal and good luck. Ha ha anyone asleep yet, I'm even boring myself Off back to enjoy my hols x

[CarpeDiem]

Sorry Countrymum I did quote bns but for some strange reason the quote put your name in front.

[nickiveg]

I hope I didn't come across as defensive but I'm also not ashamed I had tutoring for DD as I couldn't help her not clever enough ! But I agree over tutoring is wrong as it will maybe drag a child along a path that will be hard for them I'm still worried that my child will struggle and all other kids will be brighter than her but that's my issues as a parent not her ? I've got nothing to judge it against as she is my child and I feel she is bright but are all the others geniuses ?? Tbh I want to give her chances I never had and could never afford down the private route. I have beaten myself up a lot about this wether its a good or bad thing to make her get on a bus every day away from all her primary friends when her big sis has done well at local comp sigh being a parent is such a mind field ! I went into this with my eyes closed and have learnt a lot from this forum ( thank god I found it or would have struggled) and feel as country mum says some parents wouldn't have the knowledge but it is also there if they look as I have done. Also country mum sorry if I came across as being nosy was just curious I'm properly very easily traceable if anyone can be bothered lol x happy to offer anyone a cup of tea if they can go to that much effort.
I'm still in shock that my DD passed 2 exams as certain people had made out she wasn't as clever as their children etc so she did herself proud and passed ! I'm chuffed to bits with that but also still feel I have to justify to some people why she took the exams.
Anyway ironing calls yuck

[countrymum]

Hey CarpeDiem no worries at all, and no need to apologise whatsoever I was probably being a bit pedantic mentioning it as agreed with what bns was saying anyway x

And Nickiveg no not being nosy at all, am aware I hadn't mentioned where she was off to, but yes we are all very happy about the outcome. I am also aware is quite easy to be 'identified' as such on here and just a wee bit wary of all that. You sound such a wonderfully supportive parent and rightly so should be wonderfully proud of your DD

I understand some of your feelings too, I've often felt I have had to defend my reasons for doing the 11+ and almost feel a little uncomfortable talking about it with adult friends. Oh well, we could go on and on couldn't we on the subject. Enjoy the ironing!

[bns]

the most tragic thing in life is me!
I was probaly one of those naturals, I did no work for my "O" levels in the early 80's and still got 7 A's and 2 B's so I was bright I chose not to continue my education, too busy wanting to have fun and earning a few of my own pounds from a simple office job
God how I regret it now , I now take orders from imbeciles who can barely read and write cannot work out simple percentages !! and I have to constantly correct their errors
WHAT A WASTE
I now know better than most the value of education.
and I also now know hard work has as much merit as natural intelligence (which is meaningless without the former) it's pointless be super smart without having the resilience of hard work.