This question just stumps me
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Dear All
The question was no harder than you would expect.To answer these questions you MUST follow the basic rules.
1] number in the middle is bigger you start off with adding and multiplying
2] Does not work, this is where children panic, just try the other 2 operations dividing and subtracting
The majority in a section will use a second operation
Again there are set rules
1] adding/subtracting/dividing/multiplying a set number like 3 or 4 to the middle number [must be the same number]
2] doubling or halving the middle number
3] adding/subtracting/dividing/multiplying, the number on the right or left [must not switch between left and right, right all the way through question or left all the way through question.
And of course the major rule is.
Must check that the RULE works for BOTH sets of numbers, not just the first one.
Hope this clarifies the situation.
Patricia
PS Well done to hopeful parents daughter!
The question was no harder than you would expect.To answer these questions you MUST follow the basic rules.
1] number in the middle is bigger you start off with adding and multiplying
2] Does not work, this is where children panic, just try the other 2 operations dividing and subtracting
The majority in a section will use a second operation
Again there are set rules
1] adding/subtracting/dividing/multiplying a set number like 3 or 4 to the middle number [must be the same number]
2] doubling or halving the middle number
3] adding/subtracting/dividing/multiplying, the number on the right or left [must not switch between left and right, right all the way through question or left all the way through question.
And of course the major rule is.
Must check that the RULE works for BOTH sets of numbers, not just the first one.
Hope this clarifies the situation.
Patricia
PS Well done to hopeful parents daughter!
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newbie but stressed
Hi Patricia,
Thanks for the reply, it was really useful.
Don't quite understand the rule about
1 [ adding/subtracting/dividing/multiplying a set number like 3 or 4 to the midle number [must be the same number]
But everything else makes sense. If We get half a dozen of these type of questions I think will prove difficult for her.
At least I know what level she should be completing.
Now looking at the answer it does look easy but it sure was tricky for me to work out. Probably because the Number is the middle is bigger and I had to divide. This goes against your rules slightly of Multiplyig or adding if the number is bigger,
Thanks for the reply, it was really useful.
Don't quite understand the rule about
1 [ adding/subtracting/dividing/multiplying a set number like 3 or 4 to the midle number [must be the same number]
But everything else makes sense. If We get half a dozen of these type of questions I think will prove difficult for her.
At least I know what level she should be completing.
Now looking at the answer it does look easy but it sure was tricky for me to work out. Probably because the Number is the middle is bigger and I had to divide. This goes against your rules slightly of Multiplyig or adding if the number is bigger,
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newbie but stressed
I think what is confusing is that some of these are operating on themselves (doubling) first then adding or subtracting the other number
i.e
( 28 [ 38 ] 18 ) ( 29 [ 48 ] 10 )
( 8 [ ___ ] 7 )
Answer 9
Previously she has only been working on using both numbers together using the rules to to find the answer,
These are definately harder.
i.e
( 28 [ 38 ] 18 ) ( 29 [ 48 ] 10 )
( 8 [ ___ ] 7 )
Answer 9
Previously she has only been working on using both numbers together using the rules to to find the answer,
These are definately harder.
Dear Newbie but Stressed
At ALL times , your first operation MUST use BOTH numbers on either side of the bracket, I find some children like to go off on a tangent using the middle number or lets do something to the first number alone. NO
Your illustration...
28[38]18.....29[48]10
8[?]7......answer 9
You would subtract 18 from 28 = 10 then add the number on the left
subtract 10 from 29 = 19 then add the number on the left
subtract 7 from 8 =1 then add the number on the left = 9
Your method of doubling first number works but children need set rules, any deviation causes confusion, as you have noticed!
Just ensure they always use the numbers on either side of the brackets first at all times.
Have you seen my tutorial in the tips section?
viewtopic.php?t=620
Good Luck
At ALL times , your first operation MUST use BOTH numbers on either side of the bracket, I find some children like to go off on a tangent using the middle number or lets do something to the first number alone. NO
Your illustration...
28[38]18.....29[48]10
8[?]7......answer 9
You would subtract 18 from 28 = 10 then add the number on the left
subtract 10 from 29 = 19 then add the number on the left
subtract 7 from 8 =1 then add the number on the left = 9
Your method of doubling first number works but children need set rules, any deviation causes confusion, as you have noticed!
Just ensure they always use the numbers on either side of the brackets first at all times.
Have you seen my tutorial in the tips section?
viewtopic.php?t=620
Good Luck
-
Spirio
Dear Newbie but stressed
The question you original posted I thought was easy one. I agree with Patria, there's a system and logic to these questions. Often is obvious from looking at the first bracket - you can see the correlation between the numbers and if its not obvious at first glance you should be able to try a few formulas which will give you the answer.
I disagree with your opinion – this question is no harder than any I have tried from papers form this site. There is only limited number of patterns to this type of question that the examiners will set and the question you posted as being difficult is within the type of patterns. I have come across these types of questions on the Tutors CD and other downloaded papers – they are no different.
I think the following is a more difficult one : -
(22 [47] 23) (15 [34] 17)
(9 [ ] 11)
Gaz
Newbie but stressed stated that the question posted was NOT from a reputable source. Don’t know how this was ascertained, but I think that any company that does not identify the individual author of the questions and give details of their experience should not be relied on.
I have checked with this site's downloadable papers, in particluar about it’s contributors: I was given a list of names and was assured that all authors are graduates, with a minimum of 10 years professional experience either as a teacher/tutor or both, three of them are headmasters/mistresses, one deputy head, two department heads and a mathematics teacher, all graduates with teaching qualifications. I am sure forum admin can confirm this if you ask and you should be able to buy quality papers from here that are pitched at exactly the right level for 11+.
The question you original posted I thought was easy one. I agree with Patria, there's a system and logic to these questions. Often is obvious from looking at the first bracket - you can see the correlation between the numbers and if its not obvious at first glance you should be able to try a few formulas which will give you the answer.
I disagree with your opinion – this question is no harder than any I have tried from papers form this site. There is only limited number of patterns to this type of question that the examiners will set and the question you posted as being difficult is within the type of patterns. I have come across these types of questions on the Tutors CD and other downloaded papers – they are no different.
I think the following is a more difficult one : -
(22 [47] 23) (15 [34] 17)
(9 [ ] 11)
Gaz
Newbie but stressed stated that the question posted was NOT from a reputable source. Don’t know how this was ascertained, but I think that any company that does not identify the individual author of the questions and give details of their experience should not be relied on.
I have checked with this site's downloadable papers, in particluar about it’s contributors: I was given a list of names and was assured that all authors are graduates, with a minimum of 10 years professional experience either as a teacher/tutor or both, three of them are headmasters/mistresses, one deputy head, two department heads and a mathematics teacher, all graduates with teaching qualifications. I am sure forum admin can confirm this if you ask and you should be able to buy quality papers from here that are pitched at exactly the right level for 11+.
-
Guest
-
Spirio
Dear Guest,
Yes the formula you gave is correct the answer being 22.
Sometimes the questions with the easiest formula may appear harder and those with more complex formula appear easier. This is because certain numbers are easier to work with.
To illustrate using letters: -
(A C)
The question posted by Newbie but stressed had the following formula : -
C - A + C = B
My question had the following formula
A + C + 2 = B
Either formula is of same length and of standard type so the questions are equal in terms of how hard they are. Either question may appear easier or harder if the numbers used are easy to work. Other typical easy formulas are : -
A + C = B
A – C = B
C - A = B etc etc
Harder formulas are
A x 2 - C = B
A x 2 + C = B
A + C x 2 = B etc etc
What do you think of this one?
(33 [ 16 ] 29) (25 [ 25 ] 20)
(19 [ ] 15 )
What I am saying is that once you know the standard formulas used it is simply a matter of using arithmetic skils to work out the right formula. Given the limited number of formulas that the examiners will use there is a limit to how hard the question can get. If the examiners started using 3 digit numbers then it would be "harder" in terms of doing the arithmetic - ie it can't be done it the head quickly. however the formula they will use for 11 year old will not get any harder. For eg the formula is not going to be something like this:
A x C - A + C x 2 divide by A = B
Naturally intelligent children will readily grasp the formula and correlation between numbers without being shown the varying formulas. Others will get it after some attempts and practice.
Yes the formula you gave is correct the answer being 22.
Sometimes the questions with the easiest formula may appear harder and those with more complex formula appear easier. This is because certain numbers are easier to work with.
To illustrate using letters: -
(A C)
The question posted by Newbie but stressed had the following formula : -
C - A + C = B
My question had the following formula
A + C + 2 = B
Either formula is of same length and of standard type so the questions are equal in terms of how hard they are. Either question may appear easier or harder if the numbers used are easy to work. Other typical easy formulas are : -
A + C = B
A – C = B
C - A = B etc etc
Harder formulas are
A x 2 - C = B
A x 2 + C = B
A + C x 2 = B etc etc
What do you think of this one?
(33 [ 16 ] 29) (25 [ 25 ] 20)
(19 [ ] 15 )
What I am saying is that once you know the standard formulas used it is simply a matter of using arithmetic skils to work out the right formula. Given the limited number of formulas that the examiners will use there is a limit to how hard the question can get. If the examiners started using 3 digit numbers then it would be "harder" in terms of doing the arithmetic - ie it can't be done it the head quickly. however the formula they will use for 11 year old will not get any harder. For eg the formula is not going to be something like this:
A x C - A + C x 2 divide by A = B
Naturally intelligent children will readily grasp the formula and correlation between numbers without being shown the varying formulas. Others will get it after some attempts and practice.
