All change at Sutton Grammar - 2013 entry

[tiffinboys]

Grammar Schools are ability based and therefore, in my opinion, should be open selective on merit. These schools are funded by the central government; not by the local boroughs.

The reasons that Tiffin and Sutton grammar schools are oversubscribed is that many boroughs do not have grammar schools, have failing and poorly performing comprehensive schools and other nearby grammar schools have catchment area and therefore, more children apply to those places where selection is on open merit basis.

I think that government needs to make changes in the admission code to make ALL grammar schools open selective. At the same time, the standards at comprehensive schools needs to be improved. Where do the other 'bright children' go to? Lot of money is spent on the comprehensive schools and their head teachers get quite a fat salaries. It is time that we get more out of this expenditure.

[supermummy]

First of all I would like to declare my interest as a kingston parent - so I know full well the anomolies that arise and the displacement effect of catchment and non catchment grammar schools operating within relatively close proximity - phew!

I do think however that much of the problem is that given standardisation and the volume of applicants, it is highly likely that many will sit on the same score. If your DC scores say 119 and the cut off is 121, there could be twenty children on scores 119 and 120. In reality your DC would be highly unlikely to get a place but in isolation it could well read that you are only two places away and in with a strong chance.

That said I would still rather have the scores if only for my peace of mind!

[handsondad]

Grammar Schools are ability based and therefore, in my opinion, should be open selective on merit.

I disagree - there are many children who gain a place at grammar schools who are not bright just highly tutored on how to pass an exam. I know for a fact that the grammar schools in Sutton are complaining about this so it clearly proves that their selective process does not work.

The reasons that Tiffin and Sutton grammar schools are oversubscribed is that many boroughs do not have grammar schools, have failing and poorly performing comprehensive schools and other nearby grammar schools have catchment area and therefore, more children apply to those places where selection is on open merit basis.

The issue with failing comprehensives needs to be addressed as a whole, I totally agree. While Sutton is fortunate to have good secondary schools, we cannot make up for the shortfall in other boroughs. There are people who live in Slough and Hayes who have applied to Sutton schools - I'm sorry but this is not logical and deeply unfair on the child who faces this commute.

Either way I still agree that there should be more transparency with regards to results but I strongly believe that catchment area should also be enforced as per the girls grammars in the area.

[2outof3]

Interestingly the draft FAQs for Tiffin Boys, suggest that scores will be given under the new admission procedures. I could be wrong, but it says:

"Will this tell me he has a place at Tiffin?
No. The test result will be just that, with information about the qualifying scores in previous years.
These may be used as a guide as to whether your son is likely to be offered a place."

So it appears that you will receive a score together with information on past years' results. You will therefore have a pretty good picture of how certain your son is to get in. Bearing in mind that the Tiffin cut off has varied by a maximum of about 4-5 marks over the past few years, you will have a pretty good guide.

I must say, I wish all the schools would use the same approach.

Can I also say thanks to Admissions lady for the info you have provided - I always think to myself its quite brave of you to post on here and I personally have found your posts helpful

[tiffinboys]

@handsondad: whether applicants are tutored or familiarised with the tests, is for the selection process to make out. Like adding English/Maths elements to NVR/VR element. Having or not having catchment area makes no difference to this aspect.

@2outof3: I agree with the way Tiffin Boys have adopted. Sooner or later, all grammars might follow this procedure. 2013 is the first year and some schools would take time to come round to giving outcome in more meaningful way. Parents needs to keep demanding such information.

[tiffinboys]

Extracts form Newstead Wood School, Bromley

"In accordance with the School Admissions Code issued by the Department for Education (2011) Section 1.32, Newstead Wood will inform parents of the outcome of the selection tests before parents make applications for other schools. Their daughter’s score along with historical information on the cut-off score from the past five years will be provided. Parents will also be informed as to which group of the oversubscription criterion applies to their daughter. It should be noted that providing this information does not equate to a guarantee of a place at the school."

Source: http://www.newsteadwood.bromley.sch.uk/ent%2013-14.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


So advising score is not 'against the law' after all.

[tiffinboys]

On the Berkshire region in this forum, many people have been posting their children's scores from the tests for Slough Grammar, Langley Grammar and Herschel Grammar.

Now it appears many many schools have been giving the test scores before National Offer Day. Only change now taking place is that the tests would be held earlier and results given before CAF date.

[catcool]

Newstead Wood and Bromley are probably careful as to what they say because of the School Adjudicator's decision on that point.
See his decision under the heading Bromley and the adjudicator's final paragraphs in the report.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... ol=0#temp2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[tiffinboys]

I think Newsteadwood has taken aboard the adjudicator's views about lack of clarity in the old rules and it appears that the new rules are not in conflict with other parts of the code.
Either way, the Newstead would be appreciated for giving the test results in clearer and useful way.

[mynameisbond]

Where did this rumour start that 600-700 children pass tests at each school ? This year it was around 480 at Wallington and 367 at Wilsons. I seem to recall when I asked at Sutton Grammar last year they said around 400 passed their test. Of course all boys passing were not lucky enough to gain places but I wouldn't want people to think reading this list for the first time that as many as 700 are passing the test at each school !