Sutton Mock Tests Session B - results up

[SunlampVexesEel]

It is telling that on test B, top scores were 133 and 128 respectively. So apparently out of 1500 kids, none of them would get into the school that DD is aiming for

How do you figure that one out? The scores are standardized. A combined score of 245 or above therefore represents the top 5% of candidates in the distribution.
Regards
SVE

PS
It's interesting that the standard deviation of the combined result is 27.7; suggests that candidates good at maths aren't good at english and v.v; The candidates that will do well in the end seem to be the rare individuals who are good at both.... back to my theory that people are taught ahead in maths but come unstuck with the english. i.e. testing for Maths at Age 11 isn't a good test of ability (more a test of how crammed they are... Kumon etc).!

[Ess30]

One of the schools DD is sitting for requires more than 261 standardised score across two tests.

The point is that the top 5% of Sutton test candidates are more like (say) the top 1% of general candidates - so providing a stadardised score against this cohort may be misleading - particularly if the candidate has not previously had much informed guidance on what their chances might be in a competitive examination.

[berks_mum]

I am still trying to understand standardisation but is it possible that a standardised score of 261 is equal to a standardised score of 245 for a different cohort/exam i.e the raw score need for both the figures is same or even less/more ?

[tiffinboys]

One of the schools DD is sitting for requires more than 261 standardised score across two tests.

The point is that the top 5% of Sutton test candidates are more like (say) the top 1% of general candidates - so providing a stadardised score against this cohort may be misleading - particularly if the candidate has not previously had much informed guidance on what their chances might be in a competitive examination.

Would 11 year old would understand standardization to workout their chances and make informed choices?

A cutoff as high as 261 would suggest a) very high number of candidates and/or b) a very limited number of places. Such situation could arise in places like Kent or Bucks and for OOC places in schools like Tonbridge Grammar.

[Ess30]

Would 11 year old would understand standardization to workout their chances and make informed choices?

It wouldn't be the hardest maths question we've seen .

My point is that a lot of people would interpret 'standardised' as meaning that you can directly compare the Sutton scores with the required marks in the real tests. Expressing the result as a 'centile rank out of those that sat the test' gives the same information as the standardised score, but the benchmark would be more transparent.

[tiffinboys]

It wouldn't be the hardest maths question we've seen .

Doesn't sound like it.

[SunlampVexesEel]

One of the schools DD is sitting for requires more than 261 standardised score across two tests.

The range of the standardised marks will depend on a number of factors (number of questions, how discriminating those questions are, how many candidates, how 'alike' the candidates are) so you can't really compare the scores here with 261 at all. There just aren't enough candidates in the tails of the distribution to see a seperation at the top.

However I still don't believe the 261 number. Please can you provide a reference for that.

According to my calculations if 2000 candidates sat an exam with mean 200 and std.dev 15 (NFERs normal values) then 0.05 children would qualify for a place. Even if you bump up the std.dev to 30 (it's 15 in each subject and 27 in the combined of these results) only 24 children would qualify.

Regards
SVE

[tiffinboys]

It could be true for some partially selective schools. The scores for OOC would need to be very high as the number of places are very very small. e.g. Parmiters or Watford.

[SunlampVexesEel]

It could be true for some partially selective schools. The scores for OOC would need to be very high as the number of places are very very small. e.g. Parmiters or Watford.

Ah. OK. i.e. Choosing say 3 candidates out of 1000. In that case the standardised mark doesn't tell you much it's simply the raw mark and ranking that counts.... a single answer wrong (relative to your peers) and you're finished.

Regards
SVE

[Ess30]

The 261 is a red herring.

The point is that I don't think anyone would waste their time and money sitting a mock if they didn't consider their child to be a contender for selective schooling.

Scoring 100 means that you are at the median out of those candidates. Being at the median out of grammar school applicants means that you have a reasonable chance of meeting the selection cut off. Being at the median of the general population gives you zero chance to make the cut off, by definition of grammar school.