sutton set 2nd test

[totatoti]

My son said the math was hard - sort of Manchester Grammar exam format - although he managed to finish all the question he had only one minute left at the end. He also seemed to say on average 3 out of 10 boys finished the maths.... not sure how he could calculate that

It is over now so no matter what would be the result we should feel very proud of what the boys have tried to achieve.

[Bluearrow]

My ds also said the maths was difficult. From the questions he remembers it seems more like KS3 so it's very misleading for the schools to state the tests are based on KS2. I also question how children are meant to reach the standard without a tutor as they will not have covered the KS2 curriculum at the beginning of year 6.

My son did the tests last year. And from our experience, the education they got from the state primary school was never sufficient for the 11+ tests. So parents would have to go with either a private tutor or some teaching at home.

The other issue that the maths test seems to emphasise a lot on the problem solving, which needs a solid foundation of the basic principles as well as proper mathematical thinking. This makes the test quite if not all different from the SATs test. As the school aims for the SATs, there is little interest and resource for them to prepare their students for the 11+.

[BlueBerry]

My son did the tests last year. And from our experience, the education they got from the state primary school was never sufficient for the 11+ tests. So parents would have to go with either a private tutor or some teaching at home.

The other issue that the maths test seems to emphasise a lot on the problem solving, which needs a solid foundation of the basic principles as well as proper mathematical thinking. This makes the test quite if not all different from the SATs test. As the school aims for the SATs, there is little interest and resource for them to prepare their students for the 11+.

We didn't do the Suttons test but we did the Bucks & Berks one. And I do wholeheartedly agree with you. We started out 11+ journey too late and did the DIY route. Frankly I don't rate my DS's chances of passing the test and the whole system is completely flawed! It's great though if you've got the money to either cheat the system or have tutors years in advance of the test!

[Guest55]

The other issue that the maths test seems to emphasise a lot on the problem solving, which needs a solid foundation of the basic principles as well as proper mathematical thinking. This makes the test quite if not all different from the SATs test. As the school aims for the SATs, there is little interest and resource for them to prepare their students for the 11+.

The new Primary Maths NC is ALL about problem solving so it sounds like an issue with the school.

[2tinkers]

Just want to add to difficulty level of the maths exam. My son felt that although some questions were very tricky and challenging, unless he has got things completely wrong, it wasn't beyond any learning we have done at home. I can certainly vouch for not having explored KS3.
From the meetings at school regarding KS2 it's all about 'mastery' and in my eyes that means depth of knowledge on a topic. Problem solving is a big part of my DS learning at school and at home.
I was convinced that as he came out of stage 1 relatively happy he had messed up.
He still might have got this part wrong but I do believe he would tell me if the exam questions were so utterly ridiculous in difficulty he couldn't do them or even attempt them.
Anyway, having a major clear out today and will look back on this journey as one I would not like to repeat but will strangely miss. Good luck all.

[Bluearrow]

The new Primary Maths NC is ALL about problem solving so it sounds like an issue with the school.

Even though the new curriculum emphasises on problem solving skills, the practice they do at school is in my opinion very simple. Most problems they ask is one-step or two-step problems, which are usually straightforward.

Like I said in my previous reply, it needs a solid foundation of the basic principles and a good mathematical thinking to be able to build up the problem solving skills. Unfortunately, I do not believe the schools are achieving either of them, at least not our school which is said to be one of the best in the area.

[Bluearrow]

Just want to add to difficulty level of the maths exam. My son felt that although some questions were very tricky and challenging, unless he has got things completely wrong, it wasn't beyond any learning we have done at home. I can certainly vouch for not having explored KS3.
From the meetings at school regarding KS2 it's all about 'mastery' and in my eyes that means depth of knowledge on a topic. Problem solving is a big part of my DS learning at school and at home.
I was convinced that as he came out of stage 1 relatively happy he had messed up.
He still might have got this part wrong but I do believe he would tell me if the exam questions were so utterly ridiculous in difficulty he couldn't do them or even attempt them.
Anyway, having a major clear out today and will look back on this journey as one I would not like to repeat but will strangely miss. Good luck all.

I think you have a good point here. The grammar schools are certainly right in stating that a good understanding of KS2 will be sufficient. What they have not mentioned is that how well the child is able to APPLY these knowledge.

A good example will be algebra. Children who have learned more about the topic will surely be able to answer those questions more easily. On the other hand, able children who have only learned KS2 stuff will still be able to answer the questions by different approaches using what they know.

[Guest55]

A good example will be algebra. Children who have learned more about the topic will surely be able to answer those questions more easily. On the other hand, able children who have only learned KS2 stuff will still be able to answer the questions by different approaches using what they know.

Many of the questions I have helped people with on here do not require algebra - in fact algebra is better avoided as it complicates the questions. A simple approach is often quicker and more efficient.
I would caution about accelerating ...

[fougasse]

2 tinkers, your post echoes my experience the best. I had mentally resigned myself to DS having failed the SET but happily he passed. I had read posts on here and on mumsnet warning that tutor free passing was highly unlikely and as we DIYEd, again I am preparing myself for failure. DS said yesterday it was not as hard as he'd feared.
So after reading comments upstream about an invigilator saying there were A level type questions, I thought the poor boy was in a fool's paradise!
Your post has restored some hope. If indeed there was a lot of reasoning and logic needed for the test rather than year 6/7 knowledge he has a chance.
We too are having a clear out, I've promised DS we'll be going to the allotment for a ceremonial burning of the Bond books!

[tiffinboys]

Please don't burn the books. Donate to the needy family.