Does Anyone Recognise This Experience of Independent Schools

Ed's mum · Post by **Ed's mum** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:35 pm

My son's school has the sort of entry whereby children who have attended a prep school enter at 13 via the CE. State school pupils (Small quantity: I have never known the intake greater than 17, and sometimes it has been as low as 7/8 ) enter at 11+ via a computerised test and take extra scholarship exams if they choose to.

These state pupils are part of the scholars group: it is rare that day pupils (all the state school entrants are day pupils) are not on a scholarship. That said, although this is not the case with Ed, not all have passed the 11+ to a GS. I suppose that this is because it is a different type of test.

For the next 2 years they ensure that the former state pupils are 'brought up to the standard' of the prep school pupils. Apparently they usually exceed them academically.

Is this system fair? I think so. But then I would. I hope it will be 'fair' to my daughter too this coming academic year!!

See my recession thread on Everything Else if you want to see whether I have benefited from Ed's school's wonderful opportunity given to state school pupils. You will surely conclude that we couldn't have got him in any other way!

As for whether this particular school 'spoon feeds', I don't think so. He has to carry an A4 pad around to all lessons and make notes. I didn't learn this skill until my mid to late teens. They definitely teach the skills that are needed for university. They very much encourage independence.

SunlampVexesEel · Post by **SunlampVexesEel** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:52 pm

ealingmum wrote:Is it typical that prep school mums generally feel that their little darlings are more deserving of a place at a top selective school than equally bright - and perhaps better behaved boys and girls - from state schools.

If you put yourself in their place... wouldn't you expect that having paid for independent education to date that your offspring would be more likely to gain a place at a top selective school than those had not?

Isn't that what you thought you had been paying for? (And in practice that's probably what you will also get!)

Admission to secondary school where places are oversubscribed and highly selective comes as a big shock to the system to most people!
Assumptions get shattered pretty quickly, e.g. At Open Days.

Regards
SVE

T.i.p.s.y · Post by **T.i.p.s.y** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:56 pm

If all indies spoon-feed why is it most pupils end up in the top jobs? How would they have been able to cope/progress quickly if they had been spoon-fed? Ridiculous comments from those who don't have a clue!

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:09 pm

T.i.p.s.y wrote:If all indies spoon-feed why is it most pupils end up in the top jobs?

Ridiculous comments from those who don't have a clue!

Did someone say all?
To whom are you referring?
There are many reasons unrelated to this spoon feeding debate why they get top jobs.

Do you accept some indep schools do spoon feed?Surely you do? (Some state schools do too)
Surely that is actually what some want to pay for in order to increase chances for grammar?That is DEF the case locally.

SunlampVE I understand parents who feel that an indep education should prepare them for a selective exam but the "silk purse sows ear" saying comes to mind.If with all that prepping they don't get in , well then that's because they shouldn't be there. You cannot buy intelligence but you can buy a better education in some areas.They aren't the same thing IMHO.

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:45 pm

Tipsy - have you actually read the posts you are complaining about?

No-one say 'ALL' but in my locality I can name at least 6 who are guilty (or at least their Maths department are) ... and more in other parts of the country where I have taught.

FirstTimeBuyer · Post by **FirstTimeBuyer** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:11 pm

Doesn't is rather depend on what one means by spoon-feeding. If that means detailed teaching and tailored assistance, then that is what you are paying for (or not paying for in the case of a GS or a good comp

). Long may it continue.
If alternatively there is a suggestion that DC are told to digest notes and could not cope with anything outside that "diet", then that would not be very impressive, and I for one would be unhappy to pay for that.

However the latter type of student would quickly trip up at university, yet that is not the experience of Indie students, who generally perform very well, and go on to be successful in a wide variety of careers and professions.

Describing them as a bunch of 11 plus failures / pampered spoonfed braided little horrors might make some posters better, but they are deluding themselves.
Oh, and by the way ealingmum what was the name of the school that you were supposedly interested in (criticising)?

ealingmum · Post by **ealingmum** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:28 pm

FTB - i am not criticising the school - on contrary I said it is a great school in my books because they seem by their words and their actions that they more interested in education than league tables.

My point was it seems to me it fair that Universities reach out to bright kids in the state system rather than favour students of ordinary ability coming out of some indpendent schools.

Chelmsford mum · Post by **Chelmsford mum** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:30 pm

FirstTimeBuyer wrote: Describing them as a bunch of 11 plus failures / pampered spoonfed braided little horrors might make some posters better, but they are deluding themselves.

O.K I give up! If I were Tipsy I would have a little smiley with a white flag.

I haven't noticed the stereotyping described above.I think Ed's mum who mentioned SOME had failed the 11+ would be the last to criticise indep schools for obvious reasons.

I think that some of the regulars in this part of the forum are so tired of defending Indep schools , that they see criticism where it is not even intended ....sometimes.

There are excellent indep schools and there really are excellent state schools.There are decent, compassionate parents in both sectors too.

I am off to watch my boxed set of "The West Wing".

suncrest · Post by **suncrest** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:44 pm

Well said CM

I think I will go to chill and watch tv now

As an aside though - I can't wait to see my son all togged out in his overly braided new school uniform in Sept when he starts at private school. (and no he didn't fail the 11 plus - we actually chose private education can you believe!) Coming from the state system where 'uniform' is just a sweatshirt I am really looking forward to seeing him looking smart (well at least for the first two weeks)

T.i.p.s.y · Post by **T.i.p.s.y** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:51 pm

Now I'm trying to work out the braided uniform schools in Oxfordshire!

No, can't think - the ones I know have understated uniforms so yours must be really posh Sunnycan!