Gross income for assisted places.

[quasimodo]

I'm afraid I completely disagree mike1880 - for once!

In our (very limited) experience, a bursary is almost definitely linked to a scholarship in that only those who are already awarded a scholarship are likely to be in line for a high bursary.

Can I on this occasion disagree with you both.I believe I am aware of both.I limit this to KEHS.

However my views are based on what I was aware of or assumed in relation to each girls families financial position and the interaction of my children with those families .My assumptions could have been wrong based on life styles,homes and occupations. The position at the boys school may be different or it may have changed over time.

[Choco]

It is also my experience that large bursaries go to those who achieve at a high level in entrance exams and also have scholarships.
Many websites state that bursary funds are limited and over subscribed and that while the school would like to eventually be needs blind, currently bursaries are usually given to those who perform best in the entrance exams, of those who apply for bursaries.

Therefore, whilst people might hope that their son or daughter who is either middling nor struggling a bit might get a bursary, it is far more unlikely than a very able child being offered one.

Schools do want to be charitable and help widen access. They also want to boost their own statistics in terms of exam results and other accolades in the sporting and musical etc fields. Someone may also be more likely to get a bursary as well as a scholarship if they have a real sporting or musical talent - not talking a bog standard level of achievement, but something pretty impressive.

[mike1880]

Sorry, I'm standing by my statement (which refers only to KEHS, btw, other schools do things very differently). Most scholarships (not all) go to pupils from Bluecoat (specifically) and to a lesser extent other indie primaries. There are very limited scholarship funds and very few scholarships. There is more funding for assisted places (not as much as the boys school) and for obvious reasons that doesn't usually go to families who can afford to pay for private primaries. Qualification for a bursary is indeed entirely related to performance in the entrance exam; the level of bursary awarded, however, depends entirely on family income and not at all on exam performance.

[quasimodo]

Sorry, I'm standing by my statement (which refers only to KEHS, btw, other schools do things very differently). Most scholarships (not all) go to pupils from Bluecoat (specifically) and to a lesser extent other indie primaries. There are very limited scholarship funds and very few scholarships. There is more funding for assisted places (not as much as the boys school) and for obvious reasons that doesn't usually go to families who can afford to pay for private primaries. Qualification for a bursary is indeed entirely related to performance in the entrance exam; the level of bursary awarded, however, depends entirely on family income and not at all on exam performance.

Potentially in any one year there could be up to 20 girls on scholarships.I am aware of a girl in year 9 at the school who is on a eighth scholarship from what her family have told us and the rest will be paid by them.

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http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/special ... g-13224317" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Choco]

Fine, I'm sure you are correct about that particular school if you know it well.
This thread however will be read by lots of people considering this issue. Lots of people seem to hope that they will get a bursary without being a top achiever in entrance exams - it's just worth them being aware that it is unlikely. So having not passed the 11+ state school exams and having difficulties in working at speed may make gaining a bursary not very likely.

I don't think we are disagreeing. You say that to qualify for a bursary high exam performance is needed. I am saying the same too.....just that such high exam performance often qualifies people for a scholarship too - but clearly not in the case of the school you mention.

And I agree too that bursaries are means tested - so those with lower incomes who have qualified, can expect to get more help than those who have higher incomes. However, everyone must qualify and pass the exam as a minimum and in many cases do much better than just pass because competition is fierce, so high results are needed before a bursary of any size can be considered.

[crazycrofter]

Warks mum are you talking about KEHS specifically?

Our daughter got an assisted place but no scholarship. She was from a state primary. A friend's daughter from a prep school also got an assisted place and no scholarship! Both got less than 220 in the 11 plus.

Her friend with a scholarship got a very high 11 plus score and was from a prep school. This is all just anecdotal evidence though. Most bursaries will go to state school pupils as prep school parents are likely to be above the income threshold.

Scholarships could go to either. I'm guessing that prep school pupils are likely to be better prepared for the exam by their schools so perhaps more likely to get the scholarships. If you look at the websites for schools like Bluecoat and Hallfield, you can see how many scholarships their pupils get offered!

[crazycrofter]

Warks mum are you talking about KEHS specifically?

Our daughter got an assisted place but no scholarship. She was from a state primary. A friend's daughter from a prep school also got an assisted place and no scholarship! Both got less than 220 in the 11 plus.

Her friend with a scholarship got a very high 11 plus score and was from a prep school. This is all just anecdotal evidence though. Most bursaries will go to state school pupils as prep school parents are likely to be above the income threshold.

Scholarships could go to either. I'm guessing that prep school pupils are likely to be better prepared for the exam by their schools so perhaps more likely to get the scholarships. If you look at the websites for schools like Bluecoat and Hallfield, you can see how many scholarships their pupils get offered!

Just to add, talking about 'high bursaries' is misleading because once they've made the decision to offer a bursary the amount is dictated by the family income - not the child's ability. However the decision to award a bursary in the first place is made on performance in the exam.

[olucares]

Fine, I'm sure you are correct about that particular school if you know it well.
This thread however will be read by lots of people considering this issue. Lots of people seem to hope that they will get a bursary without being a top achiever in entrance exams - it's just worth them being aware that it is unlikely. So having not passed the 11+ state school exams and having difficulties in working at speed may make gaining a bursary not very likely.

I don't think we are disagreeing. You say that to qualify for a bursary high exam performance is needed. I am saying the same too.....just that such high exam performance often qualifies people for a scholarship too - but clearly not in the case of the school you mention.

And I agree too that bursaries are means tested - so those with lower incomes who have qualified, can expect to get more help than those who have higher incomes. However, everyone must qualify and pass the exam as a minimum and in many cases do much better than just pass because competition is fierce, so high results are needed before a bursary of any size can be considered.

I do agree with you that most bursaries go to students who have done well in the entrance exams. I personally phoned up 4 independent schools (in different areas) and I put it to them in the bluntest way possible that does a child have to be of scholarship level to get a high bursary and they all said yes. Some tend to say afterwards that this is because they expect the child to be able to offer something in return (good grades for the school).

[kenyancowgirl]

You are confusing things.

To get a bursary, usually, the child has to have scored very well in the independent school entrance test AND their parental income must be below the school bursary threshold.

Whether they then get a "high" bursary or not depends entirely on how far below the bursary threshold the parental income is.

Often, a child who does exceptionally well in the independent entrance test, may be awarded a scholarship first. If they then additionally qualify for a bursary, this comes off the remainder (after the scholarship award).

The only way someone gets a "high" bursary is the level of parental income being lower. However, if a child does very well in the test (and their parental income is low) there is a higher chance they would be offered a bursary.

[olucares]

You are confusing things.

To get a bursary, usually, the child has to have scored very well in the independent school entrance test AND their parental income must be below the school bursary threshold.

Whether they then get a "high" bursary or not depends entirely on how far below the bursary threshold the parental income is.

Often, a child who does exceptionally well in the independent entrance test, may be awarded a scholarship first. If they then additionally qualify for a bursary, this comes off the remainder (after the scholarship award).

The only way someone gets a "high" bursary is the level of parental income being lower. However, if a child does very well in the test (and their parental income is low) there is a higher chance they would be offered a bursary.

Yes, that's correct. Some are a bit more relaxed with the threshold if they do really want the child. As said, irrespective of how low parental income is, if the child doesn't do well in the entrance exams, chances of getting a bursary is very limited.