Top state grammar vs top independent offer

[grgygirl]

We grappled with this dilemma and agonised until the very last minute over ds offers. In the end we chose the Grammar School. Our thinking was that the academics at the Grammar were on a par with (and exceeded in one case) the Independent schools we went for. We have a ds who is quite shy and not a natural 'joiner in' so felt that the dozens of clubs on offer at the Indie would be wasted really as ds would have only wanted to join one or two. The Grammar offered a fairly broad range of sport, drama and musical extra curricular and he is now in the orchestra, continuing his musical instrument lessons at school and does two sports clubs after school along with scouts etc outside. There are also huge fields which they do play on. So, we really looked at the extra value and concluded there wasn't much extra for the money. Possibly, he would be nurtured a bit more as the class sizes were smaller? Plus we considered the social fit - ds was a bursary candidate and I do think that older children do notice the bigger houses, the fantastic holidays, latest gadgets and that this does create a subtle social divide and can lead to a loss of confidence. There are also all the extras for school trips, the school bus etc which we also have in the Grammar but there don't seem to be as many as in the Independent.

The only school I did feel sad about not accepting was Westminster Under (bursary wasn't high enough unfortunately and it is very expensive) as I think it offered a really exceptional educational experience. However, we are also of the mindset that minds can be changed at Year 9 and then at 6th Form should ds not be fulfilling his potential (which he is at the moment) and we will have saved ££ to go towards university/house deposit. Obviously, if money is no object then you have a tough choice. Good luck with your decision as it's not an easy one. Look for the right 'fit'.

[purpletulip1212]

It is only worth paying for private school if your dc will receive "something" above and beyond what the state school offers.

I am genuinely puzzled as to why people pay and what this 'something' might be.

Private schools have no admission rules to follow and are not really subject to 'proper' inspections. They can massage their data in a way state school cannot - no progress data to scrutinise for example.

Their teachers do not have to be qualified either; just because you pay [yes I know we al pay for state education] does not mean it is better. Caveat emptor!

Some of the info you have provided is something I have never heard before so maybe an unspoken truth regarding indies. Most of the indie parents talk about overall personality but there is something called the child's personality itself acc to me. What I specifically want to know is whether the 'old boys club' is operational in indies since that has far reaching consequences..

[purpletulip1212]

We grappled with this dilemma and agonised until the very last minute over ds offers. In the end we chose the Grammar School. Our thinking was that the academics at the Grammar were on a par with (and exceeded in one case) the Independent schools we went for. We have a ds who is quite shy and not a natural 'joiner in' so felt that the dozens of clubs on offer at the Indie would be wasted really as ds would have only wanted to join one or two. The Grammar offered a fairly broad range of sport, drama and musical extra curricular and he is now in the orchestra, continuing his musical instrument lessons at school and does two sports clubs after school along with scouts etc outside. There are also huge fields which they do play on. So, we really looked at the extra value and concluded there wasn't much extra for the money. Possibly, he would be nurtured a bit more as the class sizes were smaller? Plus we considered the social fit - ds was a bursary candidate and I do think that older children do notice the bigger houses, the fantastic holidays, latest gadgets and that this does create a subtle social divide and can lead to a loss of confidence. There are also all the extras for school trips, the school bus etc which we also have in the Grammar but there don't seem to be as many as in the Independent.

The only school I did feel sad about not accepting was Westminster Under (bursary wasn't high enough unfortunately and it is very expensive) as I think it offered a really exceptional educational experience. However, we are also of the mindset that minds can be changed at Year 9 and then at 6th Form should ds not be fulfilling his potential (which he is at the moment) and we will have saved ££ to go towards university/house deposit. Obviously, if money is no object then you have a tough choice. Good luck with your decision as it's not an easy one. Look for the right 'fit'.

Thank you, that is a great response since it resonates with my exact position. We are not bursary level but still not the super monied either so I worry about fitting into the indie circle especially so since this indie is in a very posh area. Parents I have spoken to say that the class divide has not been apparent and that the school's ethos does not in any way allow it but how would they control this socially? And my child while being practical he will after all be young and so the self confidence bothers me too..journey still not over and I hope the clarity in decision making comes soon!

[purpletulip1212]

ETA Do not think for one minute about Alumni etc DC need to be able to make it on their own and any good school will focus on enabling them to do this. Just because the CEO of BIGCO is a former alumni and came to do a talk at the school does not mean he is going to give your DS a job. Just because one year 20 kids got into Oxbridge does not mean your child will do, even if for some reason in years to come that is what he wants.[/quote]

Sorry just saw the specific reply regarding alumni so thanks a lot! I hear that the top jobs go to the child from certain independents due to alumni..not sure how true..

[Middlesexmum]

Unless it is very obvious that the indie is a much better fit for your ds, I would go for the grammar. Add up what you'll spend on school fees over the next 7 years, it's a nice amount of money to put away for your son's future.

[Daogroupie]

What do you mean by top jobs?

Teresa May and Jeremy Corbyn both have top jobs and both went to state school.

If your "something" is some type of "in" into the city and "top jobs" then I feel you would be wasting your money.

And it is not the school that an employer will look at but the course and the university.

After 3 years at University that is the data to look at, not what school the student went to.

I know students who have turned down 100% bursaries at private schools for a place at state school so you need to take the money out of it and say which one is best for my dc?

Some parents still cling onto the idea that a private school will give their dc a leg up into society and the top jobs but where is the evidence?

Make your decision on what your dc will benefit from most in the school rather than anything that might come after. DG

[Rhinoo]

Jeremy Corbyn went to a private school, not that that's a great argument for them.

[Sla212]

Jeremy Corbyn went to a private school, not that that's a great argument for them.

JC went to a private prep & then a grammar.

TM went to a grammar which changed to a comp while she was there.

[Daogroupie]

Jeremy did indeed start in a private prep but then moved to a grammar so it seems he sat the 11 plus.

He got two Es at A level.

He does have North London Poly listed but he actually left without a degree after disagreements with his tutors about the course content.

Seems to have done ok though!

Can anyone come up with anyone who only "made it" because of the private school they went to? DG

[piggys]

There is not a lot to be gained from the private sector - IMO - apart from 'better' facilities in some cases, and on average smaller class sizes. The public sector is chronically underfunded and this will continue as long as the Tories are in office, so this is something to bear in mind if you are in the tiny percentage of parents who are rich enough to afford private education.

having said that, the teaching in the private sector is no better than in the state sector, and is often vastly inferior. The state sector demands certain standards and requirements which simply don't apply in the private sector (good old deregulation - yeah). So any intelligent parent will factor that in. I'd take grammar over private any day of the week.

The whole 'old boys network' (what ghastly sexist terminology) is, whilst not entirely a myth, becoming ever more irrelevant. Universities actively seek to admit larger percentages of state educated dc every year and they are under a lot of public scrutiny to be more reflective of diversity and socio-economic provenance.

In my line of work I come across a fair few parents who are really quite involved in maintaining a certain image as a private school parent - the right car and so on. Doesn't make them better parents though.