question for etienne or anyone else in the know.......

T12ACY · Post by **T12ACY** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:50 pm

Thank you. As always I have lots to think about!

I know if I don't go at all then there will be a massive gap in relevant information because I can't possibly put it all in writing and would have no idea where to start, or even end? However if my confidence in DS ability and the facts of the case come across as me being a pushy parent then I am going to fail dismally. Think I need some Valium....

Sorry Frustrated I seem to have hijacked your thread!

gromme · Post by **gromme** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:53 pm

How will the panel treat the fact that HT is attending the appeal? I can see it might go both ways...

Post by **Etienne** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:10 pm

gromme wrote:How will the panel treat the fact that HT is attending the appeal? I can see it might go both ways...

If you mean "What if the head of the child's current school comes to support the parent?", then that's an interesting question.

I would not put the current headteacher in the same position as lawyer/appeals consultant/elected politician. This is someone whose professional support is informed by the school's knowledge of the child, and whose judgement will be seen as impartial.

I think it could be of great benefit to the appellant, but some LAs forbid their headteachers from turning up to offer support at appeals, and many headteachers will be reluctant to do this because of the ill feeling it can cause among other parents for whom they are not providing the same service!

gromme · Post by **gromme** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:25 pm

Thank you for the comments, Etienne. My question was indeed about current school HT.

frustrated · Post by **frustrated** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:19 pm

Sorry Frustrated I seem to have hijacked your thread!

Don't worry about that, everything is relevent to the topic and is helping us all.

I wonder how I should turn down the politician's offer of attending the appeal hearing with me, what should I say?

frustrated · Post by **frustrated** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:34 am

Have just been told that my DS is actually at the TOP of the waiting list now for one of the schools that we want! How close is that?!!

All I need is just ONE more child to decline the place before the appeals start (and no more to ask for a place on the waiting list in the meantime of course) and he's in.

Chances are still not drastically high though, as it is a VERY popular school, but we live in hope

Snowdrops · Post by **Snowdrops** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:40 am

Frustrated, my dd sat in the number 1 position on the waiting list for an exceedingly popular grammar school for three months - one week before the appeal she got in!!

If it's meant to be it WILL happen.

Good luck!!

frustrated · Post by **frustrated** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:42 pm

I have now received the statement from the school that we are appealing for.

The statement says that they can admit 120 children, (4 classes of 30).
It also states that the size of classrooms means that they cannot accomodate more than 32 in a class without it causing prejudice.

This to me suggests that they could accomodate a further 8 children, so I will be using that during my appeal if the panel don't mention it. Is this a good idea?

I now also have letters from my son's school confirming that my son has always had a very strong interest in science, and attends the after school science club, also that he has attended able and gifted workshops in the subject too and has an excellent understanding. The school no longer does SATS for science, so I don't think that I can provide any academic evidence regarding which level he is working at in this respect.

I also have one saying that he does well at maths, stating that he achieved level 5 in year 5 and is currently working 'at the upper realms of level 5'.

Regarding the school's maths and science specialisms, science in particular, is what I have submitted now strong enough?

Post by **Etienne** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:04 pm

frustrated wrote:I have now received the statement from the school that we are appealing for.

The statement says that they can admit 120 children, (4 classes of 30).
It also states that the size of classrooms means that they cannot accomodate more than 32 in a class without it causing prejudice.

This to me suggests that they could accomodate a further 8 children, so I will be using that during my appeal if the panel don't mention it. Is this a good idea?

Well, in terms of accommodation, they are conceding that 32 wouldn't be a problem, but accommodation doesn't have to be the only issue. Are they putting forward any other arguments for prejudice? For example, if they have concerns about the number of NQTs (newly qualified teachers), children with special needs, health & safety issues, etc., they could still be arguing that a 31st child would cause prejudice.

Scroll down to point no. 4:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 554#104554

I now also have letters from my son's school confirming that my son has always had a very strong interest in science, and attends the after school science club, also that he has attended able and gifted workshops in the subject too and has an excellent understanding. The school no longer does SATS for science, so I don't think that I can provide any academic evidence regarding which level he is working at in this respect.

I also have one saying that he does well at maths, stating that he achieved level 5 in year 5 and is currently working 'at the upper realms of level 5'.

Regarding the school's maths and science specialisms, science in particular, is what I have submitted now strong enough?

It looks good to me, but only the panel can decide if it's strong enough. Will you be showing the last school report?

frustrated · Post by **frustrated** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:57 pm

Are they putting forward any other arguments for prejudice?

No, they clearly state "If the size of a class were to exceed 32 we would be unable to accomodate all boys in that class.........this would clearly cause prejudice to the children already admitted into the school". They are not saying that they cannot take in more than the 30 per class that they have admitted, so 8 more spaces could be accomodated then? This is how many they have allowed in on appeal in previous years too.

For example, if they have concerns about the number of NQTs (newly qualified teachers), children with special needs, health & safety issues, etc., they could still be arguing that a 31st child would cause prejudice.

The school has a specialist ASD programme funded by the County Council, and still have spaces available, but must keep those spaces aside for boys with ASD, so although they have two spaces left to fill, there are regulations as to how they must allocate these in this respect.

It looks good to me, but only the panel can decide if it's strong enough. Will you be showing the last school report?

I am a bit dubious about this. He has a very good school report, which mentions his keen interest in science and his involvement with school activities, but it does mention his (slow) pace of work, small handwriting and the need to use more adventurous vocabulory. Although this has improved greatly now, English seems to have been a weak spot in the past although he is doing very well in the subject now, and is meeting targets set. The report for maths says that he needs to show his working out more, as he 'knows the answer but it is a target to show his working out too. He is now doing this.

Overall the report states that he has excellent understanding and is eager to learn for all subjects.

I'm not sure whether or not to add his report in with my case, as some of what it says may not help. What do you think?

I read the example decision letter for an oversubscription appeal, do you have an example of one where an oversubscription appeal was unscuccessful?