11+ Bucks scores of 113/114 - should I appeal?

[Tee]

Thank you ladies for your replies.

Etienne

You have been so helpful and I am very grateful for your help - thank you

I am waiting for the ep report however from the initial feedback I have been told that ds verbal comprehension is 98th percentile. He is predicted 5a Maths and 5c English. I assume the perceptual/NVR score is the overall percentile, I recall this is just below 90 as I don't yet have the report. So I am not sure whether ds is a bit of both examples a&b that you have given or does that not make sense? That he can have high verbal comprehension but predicted 5c for ks2? I am a bit confused!

With regards the ep report, are panels familiar with these formats (WISC) or do they prefer any one particular type of report? Is there anything that panel would specifically be looking for i.e. ht summary had to be worded in a certain way in order to strenghthen the appeal. Is that also the case with these ep reports and if so, is there anything I can suggest to the ep before he completes his written report for me that would strengthen ds appeal?

The evidence I will have is the ep report, headteacher summary and if school allow me to take some of ds school books on the appeal day. Is there anything else I should also add to this?

I guess what I am trying to establish is how to prepare for the appeal using this evidence in the most effective way.

Mrsmum, Thank you for your advice, I will definitely bear that in mind at the appeal and ensure that I focus on ds academic ability as much as I can. Did you also use an ep report for your ds appeal?

[Etienne]

from the initial feedback I have been told that ds verbal comprehension is 98th percentile.

That is really good!

He is predicted 5a Maths and 5c English.

I assume the perceptual/NVR score is the overall percentile

No, it isn't! The overall score in WISC is the FSIQ (Full Scale IQ).

In BAS (British Ability Scales) the overall score is referred to by a different term - GCA (General Conceptual Ability).

I recall this is just below 90 as I don't yet have the report.

90th percentile sounds fine for the FSIQ.

So I am not sure whether ds is a bit of both examples a&b that you have given or does that not make sense? That he can have high verbal comprehension but predicted 5c for ks2? I am a bit confused!

I think your son's KS2 levels could possibly be distorted because of behavioural issues.

You can certainly argue that the 98th percentile shows 'superior' ability in verbal reasoning.

We'll have to see what the result is for perceptual reasoning.

With regards the ep report, are panels familiar with these formats (WISC)

Someone on the panel will be familiar with them.

or do they prefer any one particular type of report?

WISC or BAS.

Is there anything that panel would specifically be looking for i.e. ht summary had to be worded in a certain way in order to strenghthen the appeal. Is that also the case with these ep reports and if so, is there anything I can suggest to the ep before he completes his written report for me that would strengthen ds appeal?

No. The important thing is that you should have made clear the purpose of the report (whether cognitive scores indicate suitability for grammar school, whether there are any underlying problems that might explain underperformance at school or in the 11+).

The evidence I will have is the ep report, headteacher summary and if school allow me to take some of ds school books on the appeal day. Is there anything else I should also add to this?

I can only refer back to B11 in the Q&As.

[Tee]

Hello

I don't have the report back but have scores below in percentiles. Still abit confused as to whether this will strengthen the case as overall isn't in 90 percentile as I thought?

Verbal comprehension 98
Perceptual reasoning 55
WM 61
PS 58
Overall 82

Do they indicate suitability for grammar school?

[mrsmum]

Tee, we did have an EP report; largely because maths was v strong in school but writing was less strong. We were looking for more evidence.
In the EP report we had figures all over the place: verbal was 'very superior', perceptual was 'higher average', but v low ('borderline') for processing speed! Reading and numerical operations tests were also exceptionally high.
Overall the report helped us show v high ability, but also really supported our position that the speed and focus demanded in the 11+ meant our DS was unable to demonstrate his full potential in a test of that nature.
I guess your EP will interpreted your figures for you in the full report; thankfully ours very clearly stated suitability for grammar school whilst giving suggestions for coping with DS specific difficulties (which include behavioural issues) and stating that ideally in an examination situation he should have more time, and a separate room.
Now at GS, the structure and stretch seem to suit him well and his behavioural issues seem less of an issue (for now at least)
Good luck.

[Tee]

Thanks for replying mrsmum

I'll wait and see what the ep report says. Thinking back to when I was tutoring ds for the 11 plus, I remember he never wanted to call them tests and definitely had issues doing whole practice papers. He was fine doing sets of questions just generally but didn't want to sit through a 50 min mock and we had a very difficult time trying to do practice papers. I just assumed that this was what most kids did.

But the frustrating thing was that when we looked at his answers he knew perfectly well where he'd gone wrong and they were very obvious mistakes. I have requested a test analysis which might help prepare for appeal.

[Morning Glory]

Tee

Your last post reminds me that DS was exactly the same during practice. We never did a full paper, although he understood the questions, would make silly mistakes and was really slow, didn't seem to see the need to speed up. If I put any kind of timer on him he went to pieces, so was a waste of time.

[Tee]

Morning Glory

The timer was definitely an issue with ds also. What worries me is that will the panel see past this rather than it become an issue for his suitability in GS. I'm also concerned about how they will need to be told about these problems and the fact that I need to emphasise academic ability but at same time get across that these problems have stopped him achieving his potential in 11 plus test setting.

I can really empathise with all of parents going through this or those already been through it, as it is taking over my life at the moment.

[Etienne]

Hello

I don't have the report back but have scores below in percentiles. Still abit confused as to whether this will strengthen the case as overall isn't in 90 percentile as I thought?

Verbal comprehension 98
Perceptual reasoning 55
WM 61
PS 58
Overall 82

Do they indicate suitability for grammar school?

For academic evidence I would have thought you should focus on the very superior VCI result (Verbal Comprehension Index, 98th percentile) which to me suggests suitability. The Bucks 11+, after all, is based on VR. See Example A in the Q&As where your question has been immortalised.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b45" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The point about extenuating circumstances is that you don't want to start off by spending 90% of your time talking about them.

All you need do is explain in a sentence or two that your son's school work, although very good, would have been even better and more consistent but for social skills/behavioural concerns. If the panel wish to know more (as I think they will), they can ask and you can respond.

As for underperformance in the 11+, we need to wait for the full EP report. The clue may lie in the processing speed, and I shall be interested to hear what the EP says about this.

The issue is not so much timing - which in itself is not much of an extenuating circumstance - but whether there's an underlying problem.

[Tee]

Hello Etienne

"All you need do is explain in a sentence or two that your son's school work, although very good, would have been even better and more consistent but for social skills/behavioural concerns. If the panel wish to know more (as I think they will), they can ask and you can respond." What types of questions might they ask and what can I prepare in order to respond to these?

Thanks

[Morning Glory]

I couldn't sleep for worrying about what questions the panel would grill me on and went over and over questions in my head (most of which were never asked).

Just ensure you know your case, that you have all the facts and figures in front of you in case you have to refer to them. The panel I sat in front of were kind, polite and made me feel at ease.

One of my top tips is, before you answer any question, take a deep breath and think about your answer before you speak.