bucks 11 plus appeals

[Jac123]

Although i have about others experiences, this is my first time making a post.

I have gone through the selection review for my DD as she was one mark away and have been unsuccessful.

The reason provided is that there are inconsistencies between the year 5 results and year 6 predictions in the head teachers report.

The year 5 results stated DD was meeting the required standard for reading writing and maths.

However, the year 6 predictions was exceeding the standard for reading writing and maths.

I did not notice this at the time put the HT report was inaccurate for year 5. My DD was exceeding the standard for reading as per her end of year report.

Do I have a case for going to bucks appeals as the decision cannot be deemed fair if the HT report was inaccurate?

FYI she scored level 3s for year 2 SATS in reading writing and maths.

[Etienne]

Welcome to Appeals!

Do I have a case for going to bucks appeals as the decision cannot be deemed fair if the HT report was inaccurate?

This specific point relates to whether or not the review was FCO (fair, consistent and objective).

It's not clear to me whether the review panel itself did anything wrong. Should they have spotted the discrepancy because they had been provided with a copy of the school report?

Whatever the answer to that question, the headteacher was part of the process, so I think it's arguable that, despite your acknowledged oversight, the review may not have been FCO.
You must of course ensure that the appeal panel get either a copy of the school report, or a letter of explanation from the headteacher (or preferably both!).

There are additional arguments you can put forward to counter FCO. See:
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum ... 12&t=41358" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do I have a case for going to bucks appeals .....

You probably realise that your case needs to be much wider than what we've discussed above. FCO is just the starting point.
The link above will help with academic evidence, plus reasons for wanting a place at the school in question.

[Jac123]

Hi Etienne,

Thank you so much for your feedback. I am struggling to get my head round the requirements for an appeal as I don’t want to prepare too much but then at the same time I don’t want to provide too little.

I appreciate I will face three hurdles: FCO being the one I need to get through before the others are even considered.

When considering what can be placed for FCO, is it true that the Panel does not have information on all school tables for the process to be FCO.

Additionally, the SO panel rules are not obvious, it’s not clear to me why the panel has not made any comment on the EP assessment done for my DD, is that normal/expected? Furthermore there wasn’t any discussion on exceptional circumstances. Can we raise these points for FCO.

For academic evidence, would an appeals panel be looking to see recent school test results scores, and if not how far back do you go? What if the school does not have any CAT scores. I ask this because it seems they would want to have recent evidence of academic ability of my DD as HT provided exceed expectation for year 6 predictions. Furthermore, I have read others discussions on taking school books, do you have to take whole copies of books or work they can look at? I don’t think appeal panels have much time to hear appeals either? Is there anything else I should consider providing?

My DD is involved in lots of extracurricular activities but I am not sure how much of this the appeals panel would be interested and what would be helpful to take? I was thinking of taking certificates and letters from teachers, is this enough?

Lastly when answering why your child should be considered for a particular school, I wondered if there was any links to any previous discussion that could get me started? How do you even know if a school is full by the time you go for an appeal? Do you just have to assume that it is full?

Sorry if these are silly questions…. But I am floundering a bit….

[Etienne]

When considering what can be placed for FCO, is it true that the Panel does not have information on all school tables for the process to be FCO.

Sorry - what tables?

it’s not clear to me why the panel has not made any comment on the EP assessment done for my DD, is that normal/expected?

I think the clerk's record should have shown that it was considered.
Worth raising for FCO at the appeal hearing, but for the present I would stick to the line "We shall wish to challenge whether the Selection Review process was 'fair, consistent & objective', but have not yet seen the school's written case".

For the appeal I would make it clearer that the purpose of the EP's reading assessment was to show that VR in the 11+ was a blip.

Furthermore there wasn’t any discussion on exceptional circumstances.

The clerk's record shows that the exceptional circumstances were considered. That is probably sufficient.

For academic evidence, would an appeals panel be looking to see recent school test results scores, and if not how far back do you go?

The review summary sheet already goes back as far as Y2 (level 3s at KS2 - ).

Any new (good) Y6 results subsequent to the review summary sheet would be helpful.

The main problem you had with academic evidence is that you say the review summary sheet gave the wrong results for Y5.
If so, this was disastrous, and clearly needs explaining by the primary school.

As far as FCO is concerned, I'm inclined to think this particular point doesn't help because the Selection Review Panel did nothing wrong. They considered in good faith the results given to them.
The primary school (if I'm not mistaken) is a non-partner, out-of-county school, so I doubt that Bucks can be blamed for what the headteacher did.

Incidentally, I think I misunderstood what you meant by "report" in your first post. I assumed this referred to a school report to parents which you submitted as evidence. In fact, you were probably referring to the selection review summary sheet.

What if the school does not have any CAT scores. I ask this because it seems they would want to have recent evidence of academic ability of my DD as HT provided exceed expectation for year 6 predictions.

I don't believe the lack of CAT scores matters in this case.
The problem you have is that the Y6 predictions didn't look realistic in the light of the information given for Y5.
My guess is that the Selection Review Panel were looking for scaled scores of 111-120 for Reading and Mathematics, and GDS (greater depth) for writing.

I also felt that section 6 of the review summary sheet had the wrong focus (understandable perhaps in an out-of-county school).
"Delightful" and "an asset to any school" are nice to read - but what has this to do with high academic ability?
Any panel would probably prefer to read something like:

• • This appeal has my strongest possible support …… an extremely able pupil with very considerable academic potential …… would be ideally suited to grammar school ….. I urge you to allow this appeal.
    
    https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... cation#b48" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Furthermore, I have read others discussions on taking school books, do you have to take whole copies of books or work they can look at? I don’t think appeal panels have much time to hear appeals either? Is there anything else I should consider providing?

Have you not read the Q&As?
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... cation#b11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(including the notes underneath)

My DD is involved in lots of extracurricular activities but I am not sure how much of this the appeals panel would be interested and what would be helpful to take? I was thinking of taking certificates and letters from teachers, is this enough?

What are you seeking to prove? You need to sort out what is and what isn't relevant. See the Q&As, sections B-C.

Lastly when answering why your child should be considered for a particular school, I wondered if there was any links to any previous discussion that could get me started?

See the Q&As.

How do you even know if a school is full by the time you go for an appeal? Do you just have to assume that it is full?

Yes, assume that it will be full.

Sorry if these are silly questions…. But I am floundering a bit….

Please let us know if we can be of any further help.

[Jac123]

Hi Etienne,

As I work towards preparing for the actual day of the appeal which now seems almost round the corner I have some questions and concerns on how best to understand/interpret information in the HT letter of support.

Although the HT letter places my DD in the top cohort of a well performing school, in describing her ability in reading and writing, the HT has used the word "good" often, whereas for maths she has used the word talented. Am I nit picking or should I be concerned, as this seems to counterbalance the fact she is in the top cohort for her year?

In addition, with the new SAT scoring system, my DD based on current tests has achieved 114 for SPAG and 120 for reading. Would these be supportive of strong academic evidence for English, I am concerned about the SPAG? I am not sure if these test results would be sufficient to lessen the impact of the HT wording on English?

Furthermore, I know that music can be considered as evidence of intellectual ability but in reality is this important or is it purely the academic results that are key for an appeal? I am not sure if it is worth highlighting musical ability in an appeal hearing or to just focus on academic ability?

Similarly, if you child is a well rounded individual is this attractive to a grammar school? Again would it be better not to highlight this point in a hearing as it's not academic ability?

As this would be F2F I am worried about my evidence being torn to shreds....

Many thanks in advance for your guidance....

[Etienne]

Although the HT letter places my DD in the top cohort of a well performing school, in describing her ability in reading and writing, the HT has used the word "good" often, whereas for maths she has used the word talented. Am I nit picking or should I be concerned, as this seems to counterbalance the fact she is in the top cohort for her year?

I think you should draw the panel's attention to the headteacher's introductory remarks "....a school with a top quartile profile ....... that context should be taken into consideration."
Point out that "context" applies equally to comments such as "good".
What is "good" in this school could well be "very good indeed" or "excellent" in another!

In addition, with the new SAT scoring system, my DD based on current tests has achieved 114 for SPAG and 120 for reading. Would these be supportive of strong academic evidence for English, I am concerned about the SPAG? I am not sure if these test results would be sufficient to lessen the impact of the HT wording on English?

If you look at the instructions for section 3, the original headteacher review summary sheet seemed interested in scores of 111-120.

Furthermore, I know that music can be considered as evidence of intellectual ability but in reality is this important or is it purely the academic results that are key for an appeal? I am not sure if it is worth highlighting musical ability in an appeal hearing or to just focus on academic ability?

Academic evidence and specific reasons for wanting a place at this particular school are needed.

I think it worth pointing out to the panel that something like grade 4 involves theory, and shows intellectual ability.

On the other hand, I would see absolutely no point in a non-academic letter of support from a music tutor, unless it made a direct connection between the child's musical talent and an excellent music department at the school in question. In other words, would it be evidence of a specific reason for seeking a place at this particular school?
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Similarly, if you child is a well rounded individual is this attractive to a grammar school? Again would it be better not to highlight this point in a hearing as it's not academic ability?

Nor is it an argument you could use to counter oversubscription.
It would come perilously close to C21(j): "How not to win an oversubscription appeal!".

• • j) tell the panel how much the school will benefit from having the child as a pupil (“This is a clever, responsible, hardworking pupil with numerous extra-curricular interests”!)

    https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... school#c21" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As this would be F2F I am worried about my evidence being torn to shreds....

I think most panels are much more considerate than that.

I would advise you to re-read all the Q&As, though (not just C21).

[Jac123]

Thank you Etienne for helping me to focus.... The school doesn't have a specialty in music. I am struggling with this aspect as I am out of the catchment with no sibling attending...

On the academic front, the class teacher has kindly provided a letter of support. However, would it be worth including this letter as I not sure if it adds more than the HT letter. This letter is supportive of high academic evidence on maths but not so much on English?

[Etienne]

Thank you Etienne for helping me to focus.... The school doesn't have a specialty in music. I am struggling with this aspect as I am out of the catchment with no sibling attending...

It doesn't need to be a "specialism". Funding for specialisms no longer exists, although some schools are still advertising that they have a particular specialist status.
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... school#c34" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Does it have a really good music department? (Better than the allocated school's?)

On the academic front, the class teacher has kindly provided a letter of support. However, would it be worth including this letter as I not sure if it adds more than the HT letter.

A borderline decision. Perhaps not.

[Jac123]

Thank you you so much for your advise and quick reply.