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 Post subject: Re: Selection review
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:12 pm
Posts: 20
good morning Etienne, Bucksmum, Anotherdad

I wonder if someone could help. I am still waiting for the HTs form to be returned to me, however in the meantime thought I would make a start on my part at the weekend

As its a non bucks prep school, out of county I'm concerned that with the lack of KS data, we will be at a disadvantage. The form will have CAT results and yearly exam scores. The results since Year 2 show a steady increase in attainment with rapid growth in year 5.

Also will the fact that it is out of county school mean there is less weight to the headmasters recommendation?

Will the fact that my DS has not been performing at the top end be an issue if he has since last year reached above expectations. Do I need to mention this in my letter.

Any help would be appreciated. With a score of 118, i know we are not on the cusp of the qualifying mark, however all the evidence over the last year and this year so far shows my DS is now performing above expectations

Thank you

M


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 Post subject: Re: Selection review
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:33 pm
Posts: 1763
Good morning M (you don't work for MI6 do you?)

My thoughts below.

MM73 wrote:
good morning Etienne, Bucksmum, Anotherdad

I wonder if someone could help. I am still waiting for the HTs form to be returned to me, however in the meantime thought I would make a start on my part at the weekend

As its a non bucks prep school, out of county I'm concerned that with the lack of KS data, we will be at a disadvantage. The form will have CAT results and yearly exam scores. The results since Year 2 show a steady increase in attainment with rapid growth in year 5. - not really my area of expertise so I'll defer to others.

Also will the fact that it is out of county school mean there is less weight to the headmasters recommendation? I think the difference is that in Bucks schools, the Head makes his/her recommendations before the results are known, so I suppose they are inherently more genuine. However, a well-qualified statement from a Head consistent with the academic evidence is still a major part of a strong case.

Will the fact that my DS has not been performing at the top end be an issue if he has since last year reached above expectations. Do I need to mention this in my letter. "Top-end" is very subjective and dependent upon the context. A child performing at the middle level of a high performing class may be a more academically capable child than another in the "top tables" for everything at a less well performing school. You cannot be penalised for happening to be in a high-performing class.

Any help would be appreciated. With a score of 118, i know we are not on the cusp of the qualifying mark, however all the evidence over the last year and this year so far shows my DS is now performing above expectations. As I said above, academic levels aren't my area of expertise (I've never been a teacher) but experience on here tells me that consistent performance in recent years carries greater weight than a sudden and recent rapid improvement.

Thank you

M


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 Post subject: Re: Selection review
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:07 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:12 pm
Posts: 20
thanks for your comments another dad.

MI6 - that's made me laugh this morning!.

Its been a rough week - with one twin qualifying and the other not. At school they are both in top set maths and English and have pretty much been performing on Par throughout, however i don't think i want to mention this on the letter

Happy and disappointed/frustrated all in one go! - especially when reading the other threads about 11+ tourism

Although we live in maidenhead my DS has been attending OOC school for logistical purposes (based on work), as i am also a carer for my husband, school runs are made that much easier - one less thing to worry about!

M


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 Post subject: Re: Selection review
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:33 pm
Posts: 1763
Just a thought, and I hope Etienne and Guest55 in particular will comment to dispute/verify/suggest:

Presumably you're well within recent allocation distance for a grammar school so you're certain that your qualified twin will be allocated a place? If so, have you considered an appeal instead of a review? The reason I pose the question is that if the unqualified twin has only shown strong academic performance recently, there might be a case to skip the review and go for an appeal later next year when hopefully there is more academic evidence available to show that recent improvements aren't just a flash in the pan.

That approach carries risk because if you skip the review, you will miss the first round of allocations for your preferred school (which school is it?) and when it comes to the appeal, you face the double hurdle of proving suitability to grammar school and an oversubscription appeal to try and secure a place over the school's PAN. One of your points in that oversubscription part would be that as a carer with twins, it would make life much easier to have both at the same school. Sibling rule won't apply because the qualified twin won't be on the school's roll by then, but it might strengthen your argument for the school to squeeze an extra child in.

If you've read all the appeal and review guidance you'll know that if you elect for a review now, you can only go to appeal later if you can show that the review wasn't carried out fairly, consistently and objectively, so it's a difficult decision. Once you have all the academic evidence in detail, I'm sure wiser heads will be able to give some more guidance.


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 Post subject: Re: Selection review
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:12 pm
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Oh that's interesting, but also a difficult one to call

We live in west maidenhead and in close enough catchment for a place SWBGS (on last years data) and although out of catchment for JHGS, based on previous allocation there is a chance of a place there too. You never know though.

Feels like a stronger argument for appeal however there are pros and cons to both. I think I will consider this option too, especially with the expectation that my DS is expected to continue his strong performance throughout year 6, which will inevitably help. Deadline I looming so will have to do this pretty quickly

My DS has always been in his twins shadow for a while and has only recently starting find his own confidence. Its almost as if there was something dormant waiting to emerge!

M


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 Post subject: Re: Selection review
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:33 pm
Posts: 1763
Are you sure you're likely to secure a place at one of those two schools? Have you used the straight-line distance check and Sally-Anne's allocation spreadsheet? I'd hate for you to go through all this review/appeal work only to find that the qualified twin doesn't get allocated a place after all. I know the situation can change each year but if you're within 3 miles of SWBGS and within 7 miles of JHGS I think it likely you'll be ok for one or both.

Assuming you have then yes, I think you have a dilemma. Hopefully others will come along to help you decide.


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 Post subject: Re: Selection review
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:12 pm
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hi another dad

I've used the distance check on Bucks CC website (is that the correct one) and the allocation spreadsheet on the Bucks CC website.

Is there a different one?


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 Post subject: Re: Selection review
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm
Posts: 16254
This is a difficult call - about half of the reviews on 118 were not successful last year.

I think with those CATs scores that it may be one of the unlucky ones - panels like to see either high ability from KS1 or a steady improvement. If it was a partner school then comparisons with other HT recommendations could be made.

Has the HT translated the end of year data into the required format?

"Progress chart - Please record the Key Stage 1 outcomes using National Curriculum levels.

For the Key Stage 2 record, using your own assessment system for Years 3, 4 and 5, convert this to whether this child has not met (HNM), has met (EXS) or is working at greater depth (GDS) of age-related expectations.

For the predicted performance refer to Teacher assessment frameworks at the end of Key Stage 2: For use from the 2018/19 academic year onwards (published by STA) and grade accordingly, noting that this is a ‘complete fit’ grading system and that pupils need to have demonstrated consistent attainment of all the statements within the standard. For writing, where there is no national test, please include if the child is working at greater depth (GDS). For children working at EXS in reading and mathematics, please indicate a predicted scaled score range of (100-110) or (111-120). "

Does the school do KS2 tests?


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 Post subject: Re: Selection review
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:12 pm
Posts: 20
hi guest55


The school does not do KS2 testing. Does that mean this section needs to be blank or completed with the equivalent view of KS2 levels using school assessments?


This is my biggest worry - although DS is performing well above average in his school, it is using assessments required for independent school. I know in the statement the HT has made reference to comparing DS with other boys in the year who have qualified, and that he is of a similar standard.
Do you think this is enough?


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 Post subject: Re: Selection review
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm
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I think the KS2 test section should be blank with a comment as to why.

It's very tricky - it my opinion it's not very convincing ... sorry not to be more confident.


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