Re-use of 11+ papers

[jazzteddy]

I'll totally agree with you, thats the best piece of skirting around questions I've ever seen. Personally I don't agree with standardisation at all if a child is bright a child is bright no matter when their birthday falls my daughter is october born and to think she will have points knocked off just because she was born in october is hard to comprehend, my god daughter is born at the end of august and is top in her year but will gain extra points. The score could be a pass then through standardisation a fail? how do they work that out its very frustrating
All the discussions about having an extra year at school is unfounded, I can't see the benefit of starting reception class learning your ABC's can have on the 11+ tests

Princess

It is unfortunate that the test scores are treated this way, an older child needs to get more correct answers than a youger child, however the overall standard of the children taking the test is also part of the process and results are weighted according to both factors.

I wouldnt let your child know this though as it could add extra pressure. My son took his test last year, and was 11 and 2 months, I didnt tell him he needed more correct answers than his younger friend and so he just went in and did his best.

My son was always top of his class at junior school, but was it because he is brighter or older? not even his teachers were prepared to answer that one.

There are so many worries about going to the right school as a parent, but all we can do is give our children good preparation in order to sit these tests and let them do the rest. My son secured a place at the school he wanted and since september has been very happy there. also the top scorer in the test had an october birthday.

Try not to fret over the ins and outs of the process too much, it just drives you mad, see the test as an opportunity for your child and an experience too.

Good luck.

[Princess]

Thanks Jazzteddy, the name alone made me smile, your words of wisdom are heard and I definitely understand about not letting my daughter know that she has to score higher in order to pass (I can picture her rolling her eyes at me at the mere thought of it).
It's comforting to know your son is doing very well at his school keep up the good work you seem to be on the right track.

Princess

[jazzteddy]

Thanks Jazzteddy, the name alone made me smile, your words of wisdom are heard and I definitely understand about not letting my daughter know that she has to score higher in order to pass (I can picture her rolling her eyes at me at the mere thought of it).
It's comforting to know your son is doing very well at his school keep up the good work you seem to be on the right track.

Princess

I did not realise that older kids were penalized in this way until quite near the test date, it worried me a lot as my son only had eight lessons with a tutor every few weeks, commenced practise 5 months prior to test, practised two or three times a week, at home.

Bought him a dictionary to look up all the words he didnt know (never even opened it !) in the overstuffed books tutor said he was supposed to read (read Oliver, twenty pages of The Three Muskettears, Pickwick Papers ....did first few pages then got bored. Bond assesment papers leves 4 and 5 english, maths and verbal reasoning, bought them, he did the first ten tests or so, then only wanted to do the maths. I never had the heart to push him to do more.

The most daunting thing was the day of the test when, although you know 500+ kids sit the 11+ for each school, you arrive to pick up your child and there are so many parents anxiously waiting outside the school entrance.All our boys, lambs to the slaughter, I thought, as I chatted to two very nice ladies waiting for their boys.

The children of those two ladies both got places and we met at a parents evening afterwards, coinsidence, yes, but if its mean't to be (and you know your childs ability) and your child likes the potential school, then your child should give it a go.

Good luck with it all.

[Geoffrey]

The older children are not 'penalised' as such. One thing the NFER reply did make clear is that they are compared only to children born in the same month.

Theoretically, if September-born children perform on average worse than August-born, then they will have higher standardised scores for the same raw marks. So there's no need for parents or children to feel hard done by.

In reality, this doesn't happen and the older children always perform better on average (although there are exceptions, of course). How much better they perform on average varies year by year, and so you cannot be exactly sure how raw marks will translate to standardised scores.

Geoffrey

[KenR]

Hi Geoffrey

That's not quite correct.

Children will be compared with other children of the same age on the date of their respective tests not those born in the same month.

So a Child born on the 3rd October will be 11 years and 0 months if they take the test on the 6th October but 11 years and 1 month if they take the test on the 3rd November.

The discrete standardisation bands are usually 1 month.

Although it varies from tests to test, If you want to see an example of standardisation in practice take a look at the tables at the back of this years QCA results

http://www.qca.org.uk/libraryAssets/med ... 05_wo1.pdf


Regards

[Guest]

I find this quite hard to get my head round. Does this mean that if there are 1000 children going for 200 grammar places then the top 20% of children from EACH MONTH will get in? Regardless of how their scores compare with children born perhaps a week sooner or later?? Sorry to be dense but this can't be so.....

[KenR]

Hi Guest

No NOT 20% of Children each month.

It's the the top 20% of Standardised Scores across all Age ranges after the raw scores have been converted to Standardised scores using the table for that particular test. After you have converted to Standardised scores you can then ignore age.

I'll give you a specific factual example I obtained from the the Birmingham King Edward Foundation Grammars for the 2004 11+ exam. There were 3 sections (Maths, VR and NVR) contained within 2 papers.

The questions from each of these sections were combined and individually scored (raw scores) and then Standardised. The 3 Standardised scores were then added together to give a combined score. The pass mark for the most difficult KE school for that year was 347 - which means a minimum average of 116 was required across all sections. (3 x 116 = 348 = a pass)

To achieve a Standardised Score of 118 a child aged 11.18 years on the exam day(oldest) would have to achieve score 71/100, whereas a child who was only 10.22 years(youngest) would only have to score 65/100.

Similar Standardisation tables applied to numnerical and NVR but with different raw and Standardised values.

Hope this makes sense

Regards

[Charlotte67]

Sorry, that was me earlier, just forgot to log on.

Thank you so much for trying to help me to understand. Unfortunately, I think it's beyond me & I shall just give up trying & wait to see what March 2008 brings!